RAH purchases: The good and the bad
06-24-2009, 11:16 AM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: Clear Right 320
Posts: 79
To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
06-25-2009, 06:37 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: CFI
Posts: 416
I never said the airline owed furloughed pilots a job. I said, where I on furlough, I would be unhappy the company could make these aquisitions, but not be able to keep me employed. That's very different from saying the airline owes the pilots a job at the cost of aquisitions that could be beneficial for the bottom line.
06-25-2009, 07:19 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 117
To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
06-25-2009, 08:15 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
06-25-2009, 09:13 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
I agree with and can relate to the analogies put forward. I consider myself to be more of an independent contractor than an "employee" to/for an airline. I bid on jobs every month and I am awarded the ones that my longevity with the organization will afford me.
Just like any other independent contractor, you don't mean that much to the company who hires you, they just want you to get the job done with as few hiccups as possible. That being said, your own well-being is in your hands. Provide an escape plan for yourself and realize that someday the golden goose may stop laying eggs, at which point you'll have to start at the bottom again.
Just like any other independent contractor, you don't mean that much to the company who hires you, they just want you to get the job done with as few hiccups as possible. That being said, your own well-being is in your hands. Provide an escape plan for yourself and realize that someday the golden goose may stop laying eggs, at which point you'll have to start at the bottom again.
06-25-2009, 06:30 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,982
Amen brother! How many times as a kid did you hear "sometimes life isn't fair". It seems like that's all we end up doing as adults, and especially as pilots, is squabble about whats fair, who's being fair, who's being unfair and why that may or may not be so. I think we would ALL (pilots, doctors, laborers, janitors, etc) be a lot better off if we were more conscious of the fact that life kicks everyone in the balls from time to time and, that while it may hurt like hell for a while, its not the end of the world. Instead of thumping your chest and whining about how it's not fair, just ice up, rest up and get ready to kick back the next time the opportunity arises.
06-25-2009, 06:46 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 29
My guess...These purchases are for no other reason than to get around scope at DAL and UAL.
In less than a year Republic will open a ATL base with 190's in Midwest paint operated under an at risk codeshare in order to drive Airtran down in ATL and MKE. What I thinks gonna happen with Frontier is a little more complex but with a similar intent...On another note unless your happy with a career at a regional I think its time to get out
In less than a year Republic will open a ATL base with 190's in Midwest paint operated under an at risk codeshare in order to drive Airtran down in ATL and MKE. What I thinks gonna happen with Frontier is a little more complex but with a similar intent...On another note unless your happy with a career at a regional I think its time to get out
06-25-2009, 06:53 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: looking for both
Posts: 36
To the OP: The carrier does not owe a job. If you hired a high school kid to mow your lawn every week and then a huge drought came along and your grass stopped growing, would you continue to pay the kid if there was no grass to mow? You'd likely tell them there is no work and potentially rehire him only when the grass grows again. The fact that the kid sees you drive up in your Mercedes and curses the fact that you aren't paying him in reality makes no difference to you because you owe him nothing beyond consideration for mowing your lawn. The fact that the airline has money has no bearing on the fact that they should keep you aboard so you don't go without money. Their loyalty is not to you, it is to the owners. You are instantly replaceable.
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
As pilots, we feel some sort of entitlement because we can fly an airplane and went to school. Pilots are just background noise - this is not what I believe, this is what management believes and it shows everyday.
The whole pilot profession right now just seems like trying to walk with your shoe laces tied together and not realizing what the problem is. The problem follows you around. You can look around at the world all day and curse about the reasons you can't walk, but the reality is you must reach down and solve the problem yourself. As long as the masses have the rationale of "At least you have a job and a check", the shoe laces will stay tied. All shorts of shenanigans can and will occur in the industry, all led by and hence to the benefit of the owners (NOT YOU), and so long as pilots disparately cling to the prospect of a paycheck out of fear to make a bold move and reserve their feelings of hostility to this board, conversations at cruise, etc, it will get worse and worse and worse.
This board has nothing to do with flying. The thing we all love is just background noise to this fighting, bickering, ICALL thread closings, union debates, rumor mills, etc. What is it that keeps people coming after this profession? There are other ways to fly and MANY other ways to make money.
If even a respectable fraction of the folks on here who complain left and rightly put their actions where their mouths are and GET OUT, the problems would in many ways solve themselves naturally for those who stay behind.
Too many bodies in the kitchen all fighting over a scrap. "Its my scrap". "No, its my scrap". "My mom made it, not yours. Doesn't that entitle me to the scrap over you?" "But my mom disowned me and I am older than you, so shouldn't I be entitled to that scrap your mom made?" "I heard Bobby's mom is going to take care of all of us now!" "But Bobby's mom has already disowned her own kids, how is she going to take care of us?" "I dunno, I just need a scrap!!!"
Give this man a standing ovation. Well said.
06-26-2009, 12:47 PM
#20
Tuberriffic
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Hopefully the bunk
Posts: 222
I never said the airline owed furloughed pilots a job. I said, where I on furlough, I would be unhappy the company could make these aquisitions, but not be able to keep me employed. That's very different from saying the airline owes the pilots a job at the cost of aquisitions that could be beneficial for the bottom line.
