Justdoinmyjob

While I agree that it is a crappy way to notify a crew, you do know that even the legacy carriers do it that way?

Copperhed51

The PF can look at the chart before the approach or whatever we're doing but after that the chart goes to the PNF and the PF just asks the PF what's going to happen next. On my checkride, I basically drew the charts on my TOLD card so that I'd know what was happening and what the missed was going to be like. It's so stupid. We put an altitude into the preselect for the next segment of the approach. Once we get within 100 feet of that preselected altitude the PNF says "(altitude in preselect) captured" and the PF says "say next altitude." Guess what happens if the one guy who's looking at the chart gets that next altitude wrong. Maybe that wrong altitude will keep you too high or maybe it will step you down right into a mountain, I don't know. Point is you've just taken a two-person crew and effectively made it a one-person crew. They told us in ground school that it would be dangerous to have a chart in front of the PF because we don't have an autopilot and they'd take their eyes off the instruments...I kid you not. So yeah, the PF does get to look at the chart but once the approach has started, it's all 21 questions from there.

Our company is working on getting ASAP apparently so maybe once that is implemented then things will change. I know of a couple of crews that have gotten LOI's for busting altitude restrictions out of ONT on the prado7. Doubt it would have happened with a chart in front of the PF. For now I file NASA reports constantly and hope somebody notices.

wizepilot

I am not going to fly that approach without a chart in front of me! Have all the numbers before you cross the FAF, so you don't have to look at the chart unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Not going to be asking the person next to me what's next! Both PF and PNF have a set of charts, normally. Who's going to know if you put one up on the yoke for yourself? We did not learn to fly like this, and I still definitely do not teach it that way. Old school pilot here.

TBucket

Now, disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer/fed/checkairman/whatever... But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shoot any approach in ANY airplane without a chart that I can look at. This is perhaps the most asinine "rule" I've ever heard. They're putting lives in danger because they think you can't glance at a chart and fly an airplane at the same time? Now, I'm not telling you to bust regs or anything... But, if having that chart there will potentially save lives AND your license, you might want to keep it within an easy glance...

III Corps

I fly part 91 now and we have only one set of charts in the plane. HOWEVER I run off a set of charts for the airports we routinely fly into. Probably not feasible for -121 ops but why both pilots don't have charts is cause for question.

The other issue was the 10-9 chart, airport layout. Being an old dog, I usually run off a 120-150% copy of the airport diagram if it is a major airport. Most ops are based on local knowledge and taxiing at night, in wx with reduced vis and just 1 chart.. just asking for trouble.