Important Article On Pay And Fatigue
06-09-2009, 11:37 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Airbus
Posts: 634
Glad to see this post. Thank you for taking the time. If people can't meet the minimum obligations of life (bills, food, etc.) it naturally degrades their ability to focus their complete attention on other tasks (i.e. flying an airplane). It's not a matter of opinion it is just part of being human.
Even when a conscious decision is made to leave one's troubles out of the cockpit, the degradation to the mind and body has already occurred.
Even when a conscious decision is made to leave one's troubles out of the cockpit, the degradation to the mind and body has already occurred.
I wish everyone thought along these lines, instead of trying to argue against improving our profession.
06-10-2009, 07:10 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: http://rahcontractnow.org/
Posts: 206
I would suggest you contact your state representative and tell them exactly what you wrote on here. Your low pay was embarrassing to you, you can't sustain a living, etc. Let them know the stress it causes you, and instead of focusing on your weight and balance your thinking about how your going to pay your phone bill in case crew scheduling needs to get a hold of you (since they don't pay for that either, but that’s a whole different issue.)
That goes for everyone else to:
In order to contact the offices of your representative, call the White House switchboard at 202-224-3121 and request that office. Once connected, request to speak to someone in regards to the hearings in congress today on regional airline safety, and that you are a pilot. Make it known, that change must occur.
In Unity,
-StrikeTime
06-10-2009, 07:25 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: http://rahcontractnow.org/
Posts: 206
What makes you think this will lead to anything positive for the pilots? Everyone knows that low pay did not bring 3407 down and no one, certainly gov has any authority over changing an airlines pay. The duty limits could change but I just don't see anything overwhelming here that would prompt an industry wide change of regs written about a thousand years ago. All they will do is harass the new and current pilots and make them do extra sim all because one night someone forgot how to get an airplane out of a stall. Ask anyone, most will tell you that their regional training was as hard if not harder than at the majors or corp. Not to mention this whole thing is contradictory because these pilots were "high timers" by regional standards. Almost 2500 for the FO and I think 3500 for the CA, mostly tprop.
If you want to continue with your lowly wages and be treated like cattle from management, please, by all means, continue with what you are doing. For the rest of us, we will do the best we can in trying to bring change.
06-10-2009, 09:40 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: PIC Challenger 605
Posts: 454
I have said it a few times, but this Captain was hired as a low timer. That is the issue that would be addressed by raising the standards. I don't care how many hours someone has sat in an airplane watching the autopilot fly him/her somewhere, it doesn't make you a better pilot. If you don't have good stick and rudder skills when you get hired at an airline, you will never get them. No matter how many hours you watch George take you somewhere.
06-10-2009, 10:04 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Hotel
Posts: 714
Beginning FO pay has been beginning FO pay for a long time. LOOOOWWW! There were no surprises going into this. I agree that pay is too low. But for those embarrassed about getting money wired to them from mother, that is a financial planning problem on your part. I can tell my new students just starting out with lesson #1 what their first year FO pay will be. Planning for it is key. If the numbers don't work, you ought to either work another job for an extra year and save or just find another job altogether.
06-10-2009, 10:55 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 737
Minimwage 4 is just telling the hard truth that no one wants to hear. The govt. can't make airline companies pay us a set wage. Only the unions and supply and demand can. Pinnacle is in negotations right now with the union...do you think with all the bad press they've gotten that they will offer up decent wages? I'm not holding my breath.
06-10-2009, 11:03 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: http://rahcontractnow.org/
Posts: 206
Beginning FO pay has been beginning FO pay for a long time. LOOOOWWW! There were no surprises going into this. I agree that pay is too low. But for those embarrassed about getting money wired to them from mother, that is a financial planning problem on your part. I can tell my new students just starting out with lesson #1 what their first year FO pay will be. Planning for it is key.
Correct, it has been low for many years and it has kept getting lower. But it doesn't have to stay that way. Five years ago the threat of bankruptcy by management was a tactic used to sustainably lower wages and increase profit margins for there big bonus checks as well as the shareholders, with no language written in there to one day restore what once used to be part of the career.
Now to specifically address what you wrote, how is one supposed to plan ahead when these concessions were decided upon by certain individuals in a union? One might have financially planned him or herself to survive paycheck to paycheck on the current wage, but then the concessions came in. And it looks like more may be coming with the attitude of certain individuals in this industry.
On a personal note, I just had a friend downgraded within the last year. 2nd year Captain back in the right seat. How was he supposed to financially plan himself? He went from $70,000, to $35,000. Show me an industry where a cut that drastic can occur. Someone mentioned in another thread that FO's should be paid 75% of a captain's salary. I think that is a very fair number.
If the numbers don't work, you ought to either work another job for an extra year and save or just find another job altogether.
Now this will put us back a little more on topic. Working another job for another year is more easily said than done. One year and the airlines may stop hiring..-it may be too late. Working another job while working for the airlines will leave you fatigued.. are you indeed supposed to be resting on your days off or working?
Finding another job altogether is what the best and the brightest are doing today, which is why were in this problem in the first place.
I've wrote it once, and I'll write it again. Together with the help of the government we can slowly begin to restore our profession to what it once used to be. We have a labor friendly administration. I urge everyone to CALL there representatives and discuss this issue with one of there office workers. The more calls the more attention this will receive. Here is how:
In order to contact the office of your representative, call the White House switchboard at 202-224-3121 and request that office. Once connected, request to speak to someone in regards to the hearings in congress today on regional airline safety, and that you are a pilot. Make it known, that change must occur.
06-10-2009, 11:20 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: http://rahcontractnow.org/
Posts: 206
Minimwage 4 is just telling the hard truth that no one wants to hear. The govt. can't make airline companies pay us a set wage. Only the unions and supply and demand can. Pinnacle is in negotations right now with the union...do you think with all the bad press they've gotten that they will offer up decent wages? I'm not holding my breath.
Elevator mechanics: $44/hr
Building engineers: $39/hr
Plumbers: $24/hr
These professions are not prohibited from striking by the RLA.
We have no leverage and that is why we are in the position that we are in today. If you think pay has nothing to do with stress, fatigue, and the way we function in the cockpit (not deliberately, but as human beings in nature), you have another thing coming. The Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge states we shouldn’t be flying if we encounter any of those symptoms. Have you been flying that way? I know I am guilty of that as well as many others.
You may continue to believe that we can't do anything and it will always be like this, but I for one, and I know many others will continue to try and make this for the better. You can sit back and watch or you can be part of it..-join the momentum. It will not happen tomorrow, it may not happen next month, but it will eventually come sometime in the near future. Congress is hearing about it, something will be done.
I once again, urge you to call your representative and discuss this issue with him/her.
06-10-2009, 11:31 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
True I screwed up the quoting but that's mostly due to the fact that I'm partially drunk and just finished 6 days of flying. Either way, the point is that the government is the only one who has ANY control over our wages right now. I'd love to see how a pilot group has any leverage when the government prevents them from ever striking.
06-10-2009, 11:37 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: autopilot abuser
Posts: 166
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JetJock16
Regional
63
04-08-2016 05:05 PM
