Its time to take matters into our own hands

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06-08-2009, 06:32 AM

#31

Mason32

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Joined APC: Jun 2008

Position: Reclined

Posts: 2,168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougdrvr

Really not trying to throw cold water on your theory, but you were obviously born after cell phones were invented

Wouldn't that be a PED which should have been turned off as part of your before start checklist? Would you whip out the trusty Iphone with a Fed sitting in the jumpseat? If your answer is no, then it should be no at all times.

06-08-2009, 08:31 AM

#32

Outlaw2097

A Second Past V1

Joined APC: Feb 2007

Position: Assumed

Posts: 743

Quote:

Originally Posted by flap

It is a slippery slope that you start down when you allow for a ranking system within an industry so dependent on safety and judgement.

Isnt this also a prime example of, "If you give a mouse a cookie?"

06-08-2009, 08:35 AM

#33

bryris

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Joined APC: May 2008

Position: Hotel

Posts: 714

Quote:

Originally Posted by flap

In your system, those that will be "productive" and prized by management will be those that.

Always hustle - commensurate with safety
Show up on time - YES
Are great with passengers - YES
Do a little extra - YES

and then......

Fly with a cold - NO
Take the broken airplane - NO
Waive duty time to finish the trip - NO
Waive required rest - NO
Take off during thunderstorms and wind shear - NO
Refuse to divert - NO
Always complete the trip - Whenever possible
Cross every picket line - NOOOOO
Fly with minimum fuel - Commensurate with safety.

It is a slippery slope that you start down when you allow for a ranking system within an industry so dependent on safety and judgement. Fear of retribution will influnce pilots innapropriately in your scenario.

Safety WILL suffer, and that will ruin the profiability you seek in the long run.

Senior guy

Since the dawn of commercial aviation, there has been this disconnect between pilots on the line and management. The old mail contract pilots were often pressured to go into marginal weather to keep the customer happy. ALPA was formed in part due to these pressures. No one is saying to kiss management's rear. One must fly safely in a system that management doesn't fully understand. However, purposely slowing down, walking slow, and writing up cup holders at outstations falls into a different category than the items you have listed above.

06-08-2009, 09:39 AM

#34

likeitis

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Joined APC: Jul 2008

Posts: 523

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougdrvr

Really not trying to throw cold water on your theory, but you were obviously born after cell phones were invented

Nope, I'm as attached as anyone to my cell but the company didn't have that number and I don't use it for company work. Now if the company wants to put cell phones in the plane or buy me one I'm all for it. MY cell phone is for MY convenience.

06-08-2009, 12:52 PM

#35

flap

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Joined APC: Dec 2008

Position: 777 Cap

Posts: 199

Actually, he was saying kiss managements rear. Do whatever it takes. Be safe doing it, but "being safe" is subjective. Turning down airplanes beacause you deem them unsuitable, will have a detrimental effect on the "rating" each pilot would get under his plan.

You don't want to be furloughed, better take the plane; don't want your rating to suffer. You want to upgrade? You better show them what a team player you are. Don't question the kiss ass Captain, or your rating may suffer.

06-09-2009, 05:52 AM

#36

BringDaFunk

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Thread Starter

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Posts: 108

All im planing on doing is cuting back on my being overly helpful to the company.

06-09-2009, 06:56 AM

#37

Dougdrvr

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Joined APC: Dec 2007

Position: retired

Posts: 992

Quote:

Originally Posted by likeitis

I agree with you completely. I was just trying to point out that your comment about "not using our cell phones will bring the airlines to their knees" when cell phones have only been around for what, 10-15 years?

06-09-2009, 08:11 AM

#38

577nitro

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Posts: 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by arondeau

What are you trying to do? Get us all furloughed? If you put on this sort of so called strike the companies wont make money because people will stop flying. Do you think that will create jobs? Ofcourse not, there just won't be any airlines.

The problem with our profession is seniority. Just hear me out.

Do you ever ask yourselves, why other professions don't have to deal with this crap? The answer is simple, they get paid not based on DOH based on merit and performance. If a doctor performed a surgery flawless 200 times with a 100% success rate and another had a 50% success rate, who should make more and get more customers? The first one right? Now think about this, that same doctor is starting to notice that his hospital is treating him unfairly. Can he leave and go to another hospital? yes he can! And being that he is paid based on performance, experience, and merit, he will make about the same if not more at this new hospital.

So lets compare that with our industry. We work hard, put in the effort, do our best to save fuel and get there on time for 10 years and we make captain at an airline. We are living happy on 10 year captain pay and then

I hope some of you see another side of things now. If you still dont, I suggest you read Atlas Shrugged. That will explain why the entire world is falling apart.

In my opinion your 100% right. In my current line of business, I get paid based on performance, the harder I work the better I get paid, as it should be. However, the completely antiquated seniority system actually promotes lack of initiative and performance increase. How is this? Well all you have to do is the bare minimum to pass and you stay employed. Do your time and you get promoted, as long as you meet the minimum performance standard. The problem is how do you grade somebody when they all have to do meet a baseline standard? Is it based on how well you shot an approach, or how much fuel you saved your last 10 flights? On time performance? Who knows.

06-09-2009, 08:18 AM

#39

577nitro

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Posts: 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by flap

Actually, he was saying kiss managements rear. Do whatever it takes. Be safe doing it, but "being safe" is subjective. Turning down airplanes because you deem them unsuitable, will have a detrimental effect on the "rating" each pilot would get under his plan.

You don't want to be furloughed, better take the plane; don't want your rating to suffer. You want to upgrade? You better show them what a team player you are. Don't question the kiss ass Captain, or your rating may suffer.

Sad but true, your in a profession that has a long waiting list of hot shots who will take your job in a NY second for half the pay. And the companies know it. The only way to beat it, is to set performance standards high enough to weed out the weak, and under qualified. This will add value to the ones who are qualified.

06-09-2009, 08:33 AM

#40

likeitis

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Joined APC: Jul 2008

Posts: 523

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougdrvr

36 years since invention and 26 years on the market. I've had one for about 18 years. I flown with some people that I believe don't even realize that there is a radio in the aircraft that can be used to communicate with people other than ATC. It's almost like their brain is hooked to the squat switch. On the ground they go right to their cell phone but as soon as they're in the air they realize that the other radio somehow got installed as we lifted off.