Outlaw2097

The best solution I can come up with is having all 121 pilots hold at least one CFI ticket.

The minimum time deal I thought for a while was a good idea. Then I thought more about the pay to play operations.

Think about it: The bar has been set. If someone does not have a flying job and just spent all the money to get the ratings, what would they do? A pay to play operation steps in, offers 400 hours to meet the 121 mins, and they take a huge chunk of profit. The pilot saved money versus renting for 400 hours at an FBO and they saved time cause...well thats what the pay to play operations brag about.

It would probably work for the first 5 years or so, but when the pay to plays catch onto it and figure out how to turn an even greater profit...they will.

Weve got 3 years or so before mass hiring will resume. I say we have about 1.5 years to find a solution and get it into effect before then.

Otherwise, its just SSDD.

rlh724

I don't know how other flight schools are doing with amount of student pilots coming in but I did speak with the chief flight instructor at the fbo where I trained at and he said students are down and other cfis from other schools are sending in apps cause their flying is down as well. Granted this is western Pa, I'am talking about. But if this is true in other locations, what are new pilots (cfi's) going to do about getting a job especially if they are those 250 hr pilots? And on another note what do you tell new student pilots who approach you in the airport and ask what they should do? I know this has happend to us at least once. I'm for one always hesitant to say stay out of this industry but I don't want to be the one too crush their dreams of being a proffesional aviator. I don't know if the solution is too re-regulate the airlines again, the golden years of aviation are behind us, back then the public had whole different view of flying.We are in a recession and not just the airlines are hurting alot of other proffesions are hurting as well. I do agree that mass hiring will come again in the next couple years. Can't stop whats coming this happens to this industry all the time hence the whole "cycle" theory.

RJSAviator76

I think the airline managements have done their share in ensuring that we as pilots are set to bounce back strong.

See... airline managements are awesome at tearing down pay, work rules, retirements and patting themselves on the back. What they are absolutely incapable of is putting value on human factor and even more importantly, long-range planning.

The cost of flight training has gone through the roof. Our salaries have gone exact opposite. Where's the payoff for new entrants in our industry? Used to be once you got to legacy carriers, you'd be set for life. Is that the case any more? Hardly... On top of that, banks simply aren't lending any money for this profession anymore - it doesn't make sense and they know they won't get paid back.

Wanna go back to the good ol' days? Wait a while... and do your part in placing value on your skill and experience - ALPA won't do that for you, quite the contrary - they'll devalue you to poverty along with the airlines. Personal responsibility, and personal choices come into play.

Bottom line, I think we have a phenomenal opportunity. Up to each pilot out there to seize it...

Lowlevel

Flight schools down here is southwest FL are hurting too. I was talking to a CFI the other day that said she now has only a few students. I walk around the fbo and there are all these parked training planes, maybe one out at a time. There is a wall in the one school that has all the "First Solo" and "Private Pilot" pictures. On another wall they have the "Wall of Fame" with students that got hired at airlines. I laughed when I first saw it and the girl at the desk asked why I laughed. I asked "How many still have jobs?" She said she knew 5 of the 9 guys were furloughed, not sure on the others. It is hard to tell someone that this career is a good choice (especially when you are furloughed). A girl actually asked me about being a flight attendant the other day. Since my girlfriend is a F/A, I have a hard time telling anyone that it is a good choice either, since I see all the stuff they have to deal with.

FlyJSH

CFIing is great (I learned more about airmanship in the first 100 hours instructing than I have flying 1000 hours doing anything else). But it isnt the only thing. Be creative. As a plain vanilla private pilot, you can have someone else pay much of your expenses and sometimes even earn some money flying (just make sure you read your regs carefully).

Low time pilots can make money and build time by:
Sightseeing *
Aerial photography *
Hot-shot delivery *
Fish spotting *
Be a safety pilot *
Babysit an owner who doesn't like to fly alone *
Lifting skydivers
Pipeline patrol
Banner towing
Traffic watch
The list goes on.

*all things I have done for money


It took me 11 months to go from a 300 hour, dripping wet, CFII to a 1500 hour wonder who could barely get an interview let alone a regional job. So, to try to be more attractive to potential employers, I rented a twin and got my ATP (the only non-joyride flight time I have paid for since my CFII checkride). It took me six more months and 400 more hours to get my first 135 job. It was a real pain and tonnes of work, but someone else paid me the whole time I was building flight time. When I took that 135 job, I had zero dollars to my name, but I also had NO DEBT.

My guess is if all pilots had to take a route similar to mine, there would be far fewer pilots. Fewer pilots would mean greater demand and higher pay. Only by changing the regulations to require an ATP for the FO, will pay ever increase.

I know some will say XYZ regional's minimums are 1000 hours already, so why demand more. The point isn't that XYZ demands 1000 hours, XYZ demands 750 hours ABOVE FAA minimums meaning there are SO MANY pilots with FAA mins, XYZ can pick and choose AND STILL pay squat. Raise FAA minimums and XYZ (as well as the "bottom feeders") will need to ATTRACT pilots; thus, pay would increase.

(Oh and the public will get pilots with more hours and varied experience which at least will increase the illusion of safety)

rlh724

Fish spotting, never heard of that, sounds like fun!

Outlaw2097

I was aiming more towards finding a way to end pay to play operations.

If we can do that, then career pilots will be back in the drivers seat.

Otherwise, anyone with $70k can buy their seat in a fraction of the time.

HAL39

Either way, the airlines needed pilots...at the same time I totally agree that pilots need to be more experienced. But would you rather have more experienced pilots from other countries be "leased" into airline spots here in the US (ie outsourcing pilots), or take the low time domestic guys? Over the last few years, the airlines needed pilots desperately, so something's gotta give. Good ol ECON 201/202, supply & demand

Bignellyxx

What were the wages 10 years ago when regionals were hiring with a minimum of 2000 hours. Not very high. We haven't seen wages go down since then just the size of the planes increase. Supply and Demand theory doesn't account for outside variable. Everything must maintain constant for that theory to work "Ceteris Paribus". It doesn't work nothing is constant in aviation.

Aviation isn't the only industry that is suffering due to corporate greed and young eager college graduates willing to work for less. Something that would help this industry directly would be for a couple low cost airlines such as Virgin and a Major to take a nosedive, Chapter 7. That would allow the rest to raise their prices giving the unions better bargaining power

rustypigeon

The supply and demand theory can easily explain that... 10 years ago there was a lot of 2000 hour pilots out there.