dashtrash300

I totally agree with you sir 150%.

wrxpilot

Well, apparently he didn't know the emergency procedures to prevent the aircraft from stalling. If he did, well we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

As far as pay, it's hard to argue the fact that less pay attracts less experience. In the past, people were willing to look past that with the regionals, as they were merely a stepping stone to bigger, better things. That future has become much less certain. All we have to do is look at what's going on with Republic.

flyvne1971

Common now. You are a pilot right? You really think he did not have the training to prevent an airplane from stalling? I guess anything is possible. From private Pilot to Part 121, I have never met, or taught a pilot who did not know how to prevent and airplane from stalling or know how to recover from a stall. I don't want to speculate what happened either. That is another forum....

wrxpilot

The quote was:

"He also reportedly did not know the emergency procedures to prevent the aircraft from stalling".

Not:

"He was not trained to know the emergency procedures to prevent the aircraft from stalling".

I've met people that couldn't recover from a stall, but they were my student pilots with about 4 hours. This whole accident is just inexplicable.

flyvne1971

Whether you want to call it "trained" or "know", the man knows or is trained how to prevent a stall from occurring and knows (or is trained) on how to recover from a stall. In a "Q" or a C-152, what ever. He did not make it as far as he did in his career by not knowing "the emergency procedures to prevent the aircraft from stalling". Why he did not implement his training is another issue, but the training had taken place and he had demonstrated his ability as a PIC to recover from and/or prevent a stall.

usmc-sgt

He did not make anywhere near 67K that they think he made. I think most Q captains are very lucky if they are even close to 60.

robthree

A current and qualified Captain made a fatal mistake. A mistake that we train to recognize and correct almost from our first lesson in an airplane.


The question we should be asking is how could he have made this basic error?


Five busts over a career - sounds pretty damning to an uninformed observer. But we all know that he had passed his last 6 PCs. We also know anyone can bust any ride, any time - no one can expect every ride to be perfect. And he was obviously current at the time of the accident.


So maybe his training itself was somehow flawed. Maybe he never understood the purpose of the pusher. Maybe he was simply trying to maintain back pressure to maintain angle of attack assuming the stall was imminent and not fully developed. But it seems unlikely he would have purposefully maintained that force throughout the stall.


Maybe he was fatigued. Maybe he was exhausted. Maybe it degraded his perceptions and reactions. So he could not recognize the decay of airspeed. So he did not react to the stick shaker and pusher properly. So he was late in adding full power.


Maybe he didn't recognized his fatigue before he left. Maybe he did, but felt pressure, real or imagined, to complete the mission for the sake of his job that day or for the sake of future references from his chief pilot. Maybe he felt financial pressure to complete the mission to get paid for the trip. Maybe he had debt built up from flight school. Maybe he took out loans to make ends meet as a First Officer. He was a family man, and pay at Colgan, even as Captain, isn't going to put a new minivan in the driveway for his wife, braces on his kids, or send them to even the lousiest state university. Maybe those financial concerns caused the kind of long term stress that dulls the senses and diminishes performance.


Maybe he was thinking about the pressures of being away from home for more than half of his childrens' lives. Maybe he was worried about not being there for the recitals, soccer games, birthdays, holidays, weekends, and every other special event in his family's future. Maybe he was worried about how that would affect his children. Maybe he was concerned about the stresses he was placing on his marriage, the effect his protracted absences placed on his wife. Maybe those thoughts, or something similar, were going through his mind when he should have noticed his airspeed bleeding away.



I reject the idea that the Captain was somehow not competent for the mission. I reject the idea that he was inadequately trained. I reject the idea that he was not experienced enough to be at the controls that night.


And I absolutely reject the idea that "Compensation has nothing to do with safety."

rdneckpilot

Unfortunately our industry, especially the regional market, has deteriorated to the point that the most important qualification is willingness.

Willingness to work for poverty wages, deal with hostile scheduling/sick call, and watch as a significant number of mainline jobs are converted to regional jobs. If you are willing to do the job and put up with their work environment the regional airlines are willing to let you get and keep your job.

I am not specifically referencing the BUF crew or questioning their training/qualifications.

j1b3h0

I know it's a minor point, but despite all the banter about compensation or lack thereof, nobody mentioned the fact that (unlike most professions) pilot jobs aren't transferable - with the same income. Does a physician who transfers jobs restart at an interns salary?

FlyJSH

After reading this post http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/av...tml#post611926, I would expect you to already know the answer. Go ask your instructor.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fl...tml#post611308 And leave the cellphone out of flying.