The Rah Guys Better Like The E190
05-23-2009, 08:16 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Keep trying to convince yourself of that.
If you want someone to welcome you in the future, don't blatantly steal from them now!
100 seater flying is mainline flying. Where do you wanna go? Mainline?
OOPS!
JJ
05-23-2009, 08:39 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Furloughed
Posts: 28
First, let's not forget it is Memorial Day weekend and remember all those who have given their lives in defense of our country and the liberties we hold so dear (including the freedom of speech and expression we take for granted on APF).
Second, not all mainline guys forget that it was their own fault that the situation has developed to what it has become. I have flown with some, though very few, that have said they have only themselves to blame. Most guys do trash and bad mouth the feeder carriers as the cause of their problems and like to take it out on the little guy. Ticks me off since I was one of the little guys who flew where management told me, etc.
Third, the way for this to end is to hold the line. RAH guys can keep voting 'NO' on their contract until the company coughs up the work rules and pay rates that are worthy of a professional pilot...not a regional pilot, big jet pilot...A PROFESSIONAL PILOT. You can get what you want if you stick together and not get fooled by management's dangling of more airplane orders, quick upgrades, and even more pilots on the seniority list.
Finally, on a locked thread someone mentioned "this will only lead us down the road to majors having regional contracts with regional work rules with only slightly better pay." Well at some majors that is already the case. There are far worse work rules at my current company than my previous employer thanks to a concessionary contract that should never have been voted in when it was put to a vote.
Second, not all mainline guys forget that it was their own fault that the situation has developed to what it has become. I have flown with some, though very few, that have said they have only themselves to blame. Most guys do trash and bad mouth the feeder carriers as the cause of their problems and like to take it out on the little guy. Ticks me off since I was one of the little guys who flew where management told me, etc.
Third, the way for this to end is to hold the line. RAH guys can keep voting 'NO' on their contract until the company coughs up the work rules and pay rates that are worthy of a professional pilot...not a regional pilot, big jet pilot...A PROFESSIONAL PILOT. You can get what you want if you stick together and not get fooled by management's dangling of more airplane orders, quick upgrades, and even more pilots on the seniority list.
Finally, on a locked thread someone mentioned "this will only lead us down the road to majors having regional contracts with regional work rules with only slightly better pay." Well at some majors that is already the case. There are far worse work rules at my current company than my previous employer thanks to a concessionary contract that should never have been voted in when it was put to a vote.
Though I would add two points. First, placing sole blame for scope on the MEC's of mainline airlines is akin to saying a rape victim had it coming. Airline management is very organized in response to labor and has been playing for this end game for a very long time. They are the real enemy. By offering carrots to certain segments of mainline pilots and strategic utilization of the bankruptcy process they have continued to move the bar. The only way the bar stops moving is if we "all" hold the line when we have the chance, whether in terms of scope clause or negotiating an industry leading contract.
Second point. It concerns me how many regional pilots are content with status quo pay rates. Don't you think management relishes every time you say you don't want industry leading pay or feel mainline pilots are overpaid. If no one goes up in pay and everyone seeks the average the average goes down. If you are not flying for across the board industry leading rates then there is work to do. I am not saying it should happen at once, but regionals need to start incrementaly leap-frogging each other up, not down.
WJI
05-23-2009, 08:50 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
You hit it on the head...
Second point. It concerns me how many regional pilots are content with status quo pay rates. Don't you think management relishes every time you say you don't want industry leading pay or feel mainline pilots are overpaid. If no one goes up in pay and everyone seeks the average the average goes down. If you are not flying for across the board industry leading rates then there is work to do. I am not saying it should happen at once, but regionals need to start incrementaly leap-frogging each other up, not down.
WJI
Second point. It concerns me how many regional pilots are content with status quo pay rates. Don't you think management relishes every time you say you don't want industry leading pay or feel mainline pilots are overpaid. If no one goes up in pay and everyone seeks the average the average goes down. If you are not flying for across the board industry leading rates then there is work to do. I am not saying it should happen at once, but regionals need to start incrementaly leap-frogging each other up, not down.
WJI
Forget it dude.
The Comair guys went on strike for three months to address that very issue. They had the right idea but didn't get the required support. Quite the opposite. Rather than unite, other "certain" regionals saw blood in the water and acted. Now, we all have to pay.
Who knew?
JJ
05-23-2009, 09:08 AM
#44
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Johnso29 with all due respect not a single one of us came here because it was an alter-ego regional or anything of that nature. There was never talk of 190s when I was hired. I had no part in the process and no say. This isn't like the Freedom A listers and the GoJet guys. This isn't like the scabs at CAL. This is management and unless our management is applying at other airlines I don't see any reason why I'd be faulted for someone elses hole in a contract.
05-23-2009, 09:28 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Johnso29 with all due respect not a single one of us came here because it was an alter-ego regional or anything of that nature. There was never talk of 190s when I was hired. I had no part in the process and no say. This isn't like the Freedom A listers and the GoJet guys. This isn't like the scabs at CAL. This is management and unless our management is applying at other airlines I don't see any reason why I'd be faulted for someone elses hole in a contract.
Will the RAH guys make a stand or play the game?
You play the game, you get the name. You take that name to interview. If you get an interview.
JJ
05-23-2009, 09:46 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
You have no idea what you are talking about; you are trying to prove the size of your cojones with a lot of cheap talk. When you've been on one of those lines, like many of us have, then you can talk. You (if you're MidEx) are not on strike, so no one has crossed your picket line.
Informational pickets don't count.
If you have a gripe it's with ALPA National for not having the balls or the leadership to do anything. They decided you, like others, weren't worth standing up for. So they cut you and your MEC loose.
Don't cheapen the fight that I and thousands of others took on by using words you obviously don't understand.
05-23-2009, 09:57 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Furloughed
Posts: 28
Forget it dude.
The Comair guys went on strike for three months to address that very issue. They had the right idea but didn't get the required support. Quite the opposite. Rather than unite, other "certain" regionals saw blood in the water and acted. Now, we all have to pay.
Who knew?
JJ
The Comair guys went on strike for three months to address that very issue. They had the right idea but didn't get the required support. Quite the opposite. Rather than unite, other "certain" regionals saw blood in the water and acted. Now, we all have to pay.
Who knew?
JJ
My concern is not what a group is able to gain, but the sense that they feel they earn "enough".
WJI
05-23-2009, 10:03 AM
#48
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Johnso29 with all due respect not a single one of us came here because it was an alter-ego regional or anything of that nature. There was never talk of 190s when I was hired. I had no part in the process and no say. This isn't like the Freedom A listers and the GoJet guys. This isn't like the scabs at CAL. This is management and unless our management is applying at other airlines I don't see any reason why I'd be faulted for someone elses hole in a contract.
No disrespect intended TD. This is a bitter pill for a lot of us to swallow, but it's happening. The argument of who gave up scope is pointless. We have to work together, & all we fellow pilots can ask of the RAH pilot group is that you fight for industry leading rates. Just as you should ask of other fellow pilots when they are faced with new equipment & contract negotiations. Management has played us against each other for years, & hopefully this period of stagnation will anger enough of us othat we fight management.
I also wasn't implying that RAH pilots will be blacklisted, just that a very small chance exists that someone may hold it against an applicant.
Good Luck to the RAH Pilot group. Many many other pilots are counting on you.
Last edited by johnso29; 05-23-2009 at 10:36 AM.
05-23-2009, 11:12 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,857
Yes, you've made it abundantly clear that you're more than ready to throw an entire pilot group under the bus for an action that group may or may not take in response to an agreement made between two management groups. Ironic, then, that you want that pilot group to turn around and support you in "brotherhood" or "unity" or whatever you want to call it.
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