Airlines policies force pilots to fly sick
05-20-2009, 10:26 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 51
Airlines policies force pilots to fly sick
Recent events suggest the Colgan flight 3407 FO may have been flying while sick or fatigued and was reluctant to call off.
The flying public should know that many airlines have written policies that can force pilots to make the decision either to fly while unfit for flight or be fired.
While workers at other jobs can usually show up for work if affected by hay fever, fighting a mild cold or just not feeling 100%, Federal air regulation 61.53 makes things different for pilots.
An excerpt from PSA airlines written attendance policy:
Occurrence 6
Timeframe 12 Months
Corrective Action
Final written warning and 3-DAY suspension without pay. Crewmember is subject to termination for any accountable absence in the six months following the 6th accountable absence.
Note that under this policy any crewmember who has the misfortune of finding himself with six absences in the past year [Not unrealistic for someone who is truly objective about their fitness for flight IMO] would have to chose between being fired or flying while unfit.
The flying public should know that many airlines have written policies that can force pilots to make the decision either to fly while unfit for flight or be fired.
While workers at other jobs can usually show up for work if affected by hay fever, fighting a mild cold or just not feeling 100%, Federal air regulation 61.53 makes things different for pilots.
An excerpt from PSA airlines written attendance policy:
Occurrence 6
Timeframe 12 Months
Corrective Action
Final written warning and 3-DAY suspension without pay. Crewmember is subject to termination for any accountable absence in the six months following the 6th accountable absence.
Note that under this policy any crewmember who has the misfortune of finding himself with six absences in the past year [Not unrealistic for someone who is truly objective about their fitness for flight IMO] would have to chose between being fired or flying while unfit.
Last edited by Jetstream 823JS; 05-20-2009 at 10:39 AM.
05-20-2009, 11:24 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Furloughed Righ Seater
Posts: 251
RAH has the same type of thing. I think 6 sick calls (occurrences...fatigue counts as an occurrence too) is a written warning, 8 is termination in 12 months. I got close but then was furloughed. If I get called back any occurrences I had still remain. Nice.
05-20-2009, 12:38 PM
#3
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Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
WHOOOOAAAA. Even pinnacle isn't dumb enough to count a fatigue call as an occurence. Can you imagine if there was an accident and the reason the pilots didn't call in is because one more JUSTIFIED fatigue call would have resulted in their termination?
05-20-2009, 12:58 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 167
And what about the pressure not to call in sick while on probation? When I got hired at my current regional, during indoc the company pretty much told us flat out that we would be fired for any little reason, ie..sick call, etc....
05-20-2009, 01:03 PM
#5
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Any of you people ever heard of a Lawyer? They can print and say anything they want.... and to a certain extent they can DO anything they want... until somebody calls them on it. The FAR's are very clear, a company policy can not supercede federal regulation.
05-20-2009, 01:14 PM
#6
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Posts: 443
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.
05-20-2009, 03:02 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
DCA07MA072
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.
05-20-2009, 03:37 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 426
The funny thing about all this is they never learn or care. Just two weeks ago we got a new Fatigue policy at Pinnacle Inc. It goes something like this..
If you call in fatigue you must notify scheduling (duh), your base manager, file a flight safety report within 48 hours, and then you have a carpet dance with either the base manager or asst base manager. It literally says if they determine your fatigue call is not warranted then you will be mistripped. Unbelievable. Also if you miss any of those steps or file a FSR outside of 48 hours you are considered mistripped.
I wasn't aware these morbidly obese mentally handicapped rejects we have running the place were experts in fatigue.
Oh, and by the way, the sick policy in a nutshell is:
1. if you call in sick on or near a holiday you'll need a doctor's note
2. if you call in sick any other day we can (and do) ask for a doctor's note
3. if you fail to supply a sick note you are mistripped
4. anything more than 3 occurences in 12 rolling months gets you a carpet dance and possibly a letter on your file. After that you're eligble for suspension or termination.
This crap better be locked out completey in the new contract with no way to reinterepret rules in their unethical ways.
If you call in fatigue you must notify scheduling (duh), your base manager, file a flight safety report within 48 hours, and then you have a carpet dance with either the base manager or asst base manager. It literally says if they determine your fatigue call is not warranted then you will be mistripped. Unbelievable. Also if you miss any of those steps or file a FSR outside of 48 hours you are considered mistripped.
I wasn't aware these morbidly obese mentally handicapped rejects we have running the place were experts in fatigue.
Oh, and by the way, the sick policy in a nutshell is:
1. if you call in sick on or near a holiday you'll need a doctor's note
2. if you call in sick any other day we can (and do) ask for a doctor's note
3. if you fail to supply a sick note you are mistripped
4. anything more than 3 occurences in 12 rolling months gets you a carpet dance and possibly a letter on your file. After that you're eligble for suspension or termination.
This crap better be locked out completey in the new contract with no way to reinterepret rules in their unethical ways.
05-20-2009, 04:12 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
The funny thing about all this is they never learn or care. Just two weeks ago we got a new Fatigue policy at Pinnacle Inc. It goes something like this..
If you call in fatigue you must notify scheduling (duh), your base manager, file a flight safety report within 48 hours, and then you have a carpet dance with either the base manager or asst base manager. It literally says if they determine your fatigue call is not warranted then you will be mistripped. Unbelievable. Also if you miss any of those steps or file a FSR outside of 48 hours you are considered mistripped.
I wasn't aware these morbidly obese mentally handicapped rejects we have running the place were experts in fatigue.
Oh, and by the way, the sick policy in a nutshell is:
1. if you call in sick on or near a holiday you'll need a doctor's note
2. if you call in sick any other day we can (and do) ask for a doctor's note
3. if you fail to supply a sick note you are mistripped
4. anything more than 3 occurences in 12 rolling months gets you a carpet dance and possibly a letter on your file. After that you're eligble for suspension or termination.
This crap better be locked out completey in the new contract with no way to reinterepret rules in their unethical ways.
If you call in fatigue you must notify scheduling (duh), your base manager, file a flight safety report within 48 hours, and then you have a carpet dance with either the base manager or asst base manager. It literally says if they determine your fatigue call is not warranted then you will be mistripped. Unbelievable. Also if you miss any of those steps or file a FSR outside of 48 hours you are considered mistripped.
I wasn't aware these morbidly obese mentally handicapped rejects we have running the place were experts in fatigue.
Oh, and by the way, the sick policy in a nutshell is:
1. if you call in sick on or near a holiday you'll need a doctor's note
2. if you call in sick any other day we can (and do) ask for a doctor's note
3. if you fail to supply a sick note you are mistripped
4. anything more than 3 occurences in 12 rolling months gets you a carpet dance and possibly a letter on your file. After that you're eligble for suspension or termination.
This crap better be locked out completey in the new contract with no way to reinterepret rules in their unethical ways.
as has been said before.... apparently all regionals are not the same after all....
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