Airlines policies force pilots to fly sick
05-20-2009, 04:25 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: GALX
Posts: 66
I understand a small % of the pilot group abuses the sick policy, maybe we all have abused it, but it is EARNED. That being said, I remember a senior captain saying "Even good people get flat tires" when discussing attendance issues. Bad things happen to good people. We all have families and lives outside of this and the REAL TALK is sometimes you just can't come to work. Sometimes you can, but its not safe. A father has 2 sick children, attempted to go to bed early but no rest was gained and is fatigued. Not fatigued from flying work, but fatigued none the less. I think it takes a good person to know when to call in sick and good people making good choices shouldn't have to play the get a doctor note game.
05-20-2009, 04:28 PM
#12
18 Day Gear Monkey
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Phenom Gear Jockey
Posts: 171
The ultimate point here boys and girls, is that no one can FORCE you to set foot on an airplane when you are NOT FIT FOR DUTY. Period. Now, I understand the pressure that the airline puts on you me and every other pilot to get the job done, but this is not only a CYA move, you have to consider the people in the back as well. Why risk it.
Pressure at the airlines is something that needs to be addressed and rectified. I for one am not afraid of calling in sick or fatigued if I need to, I have done it while on a trip even. I am more afraid of getting violated or killed than I am of a carpet dance for the boss man. Just ask yourself if you would fly in that condition with a fed or your family on board. If the answer is anything other than a resounding YES, get off the plane.
Just remember that it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.
Pressure at the airlines is something that needs to be addressed and rectified. I for one am not afraid of calling in sick or fatigued if I need to, I have done it while on a trip even. I am more afraid of getting violated or killed than I am of a carpet dance for the boss man. Just ask yourself if you would fly in that condition with a fed or your family on board. If the answer is anything other than a resounding YES, get off the plane.
Just remember that it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.
05-20-2009, 07:54 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 167
The ultimate point here boys and girls, is that no one can FORCE you to set foot on an airplane when you are NOT FIT FOR DUTY. Period. Now, I understand the pressure that the airline puts on you me and every other pilot to get the job done, but this is not only a CYA move, you have to consider the people in the back as well. Why risk it.
Pressure at the airlines is something that needs to be addressed and rectified. I for one am not afraid of calling in sick or fatigued if I need to, I have done it while on a trip even. I am more afraid of getting violated or killed than I am of a carpet dance for the boss man. Just ask yourself if you would fly in that condition with a fed or your family on board. If the answer is anything other than a resounding YES, get off the plane.
Just remember that it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.
Pressure at the airlines is something that needs to be addressed and rectified. I for one am not afraid of calling in sick or fatigued if I need to, I have done it while on a trip even. I am more afraid of getting violated or killed than I am of a carpet dance for the boss man. Just ask yourself if you would fly in that condition with a fed or your family on board. If the answer is anything other than a resounding YES, get off the plane.
Just remember that it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.
good point!!!!!
will be their 
or most definitely 
05-20-2009, 10:34 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Cessna 210 Turbo
Posts: 50
I'm not doing this for a living as you folks do, but I do mostly agree with you and support you on various issues.
That being said...
"Sully" did a good thing with what he said before congress, and this recent Colgan crash, and what was said about sickness (Shaw was sick), pay and fatigue, did not go unnoticed by the news media, and always gives you another alternative- a phone call to the folks who are always looking for a headline.
If it's a legit excuse, and the "doctor note" game is getting out of hand, and your union is not helping, the time is ripe for a phone call to the media. Doesn't have to be CNN either, as some local folks would be looking for a good story to advance their careers.
Just be sure your "ducks" are all in a row before making the call.
I'm no big fan of the "media", but you all actually have an opportunity right now to use them to your advantage, even if it is just educating pax who look for nothing more than a cheap ticket.
It's on the media's radar right now, so use it, if necessary, to your advantage.
Always remember, if the story is a good one that your name / image can be withheld.
That being said...
"Sully" did a good thing with what he said before congress, and this recent Colgan crash, and what was said about sickness (Shaw was sick), pay and fatigue, did not go unnoticed by the news media, and always gives you another alternative- a phone call to the folks who are always looking for a headline.
If it's a legit excuse, and the "doctor note" game is getting out of hand, and your union is not helping, the time is ripe for a phone call to the media. Doesn't have to be CNN either, as some local folks would be looking for a good story to advance their careers.
Just be sure your "ducks" are all in a row before making the call.
I'm no big fan of the "media", but you all actually have an opportunity right now to use them to your advantage, even if it is just educating pax who look for nothing more than a cheap ticket.
It's on the media's radar right now, so use it, if necessary, to your advantage.
Always remember, if the story is a good one that your name / image can be withheld.
05-20-2009, 10:52 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
DCA07MA072
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.
05-21-2009, 04:56 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: King Air 200 CA Hawker 800/900 FO
Posts: 810
I'm not doing this for a living as you folks do, but I do mostly agree with you and support you on various issues.
That being said...
"Sully" did a good thing with what he said before congress, and this recent Colgan crash, and what was said about sickness (Shaw was sick), pay and fatigue, did not go unnoticed by the news media, and always gives you another alternative- a phone call to the folks who are always looking for a headline.
If it's a legit excuse, and the "doctor note" game is getting out of hand, and your union is not helping, the time is ripe for a phone call to the media. Doesn't have to be CNN either, as some local folks would be looking for a good story to advance their careers.
Just be sure your "ducks" are all in a row before making the call.
I'm no big fan of the "media", but you all actually have an opportunity right now to use them to your advantage, even if it is just educating pax who look for nothing more than a cheap ticket.
It's on the media's radar right now, so use it, if necessary, to your advantage.
Always remember, if the story is a good one that your name / image can be withheld.
That being said...
"Sully" did a good thing with what he said before congress, and this recent Colgan crash, and what was said about sickness (Shaw was sick), pay and fatigue, did not go unnoticed by the news media, and always gives you another alternative- a phone call to the folks who are always looking for a headline.
If it's a legit excuse, and the "doctor note" game is getting out of hand, and your union is not helping, the time is ripe for a phone call to the media. Doesn't have to be CNN either, as some local folks would be looking for a good story to advance their careers.
Just be sure your "ducks" are all in a row before making the call.
I'm no big fan of the "media", but you all actually have an opportunity right now to use them to your advantage, even if it is just educating pax who look for nothing more than a cheap ticket.
It's on the media's radar right now, so use it, if necessary, to your advantage.
Always remember, if the story is a good one that your name / image can be withheld.
Most companies have printed in Ops Manuals provisions prohibiting you from speaking to the media without approval from management. And I highly doubt management is going to allow you to comment publicly on how they are abusing and intimidating flight crews. If you plan on leaving the company then ya go for it, but you will probably be terminated for it and there is nothing ALPA, IBT could do to keep your job.
05-21-2009, 05:53 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 125
Correct...the FOM expressly forbids you from talking to the media. Now on the other hand the FAA is a whole different story. I have decided to ASAP each and every time that I fly sick or tired. ASAPs are reviewed by the FAA. When people that are flying tired or sick start ASAPing those events they will be questioned as to why they violated FARs. You simply state that you felt that your employment was in jeopardy and that you were simly protecting yourself.
05-21-2009, 06:20 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 330 B
Posts: 1,626
Correct...the FOM expressly forbids you from talking to the media. Now on the other hand the FAA is a whole different story. I have decided to ASAP each and every time that I fly sick or tired. ASAPs are reviewed by the FAA. When people that are flying tired or sick start ASAPing those events they will be questioned as to why they violated FARs. You simply state that you felt that your employment was in jeopardy and that you were simly protecting yourself.
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