AmericanEagleFO

1. Hours of work are hours of work. Whether they are at AMR or at sonic. If I have to work overtime or get an outside part-time job I will still be taking work out of the available pool. This will still hurt the furloughed pilots in one way or another. This causes others to go after the jobs that our furloughed pilots need to work. In an ideal world none of us would need overtime or a second job. I make $26 bucks an hour. My salary is not close to jet pay. This is a whole other issue though and we won't go into that right now.

2. I don't drink the company Kool-aide just as I don't drink the union Kool-aide. Take both with a grain of salt. By reducing cost I don't mean salary. I mean COST. When I get furloughed I will blame it on a few things.

• A shrinking economy. The company hired me when things were going much better than they are now. People traveled more. I feel that the company has no obligation to employ me if they can't afford to because they are operating at a smaller capacity than when I was hired. If you want to blame anybody, blame the families that aren't going on a vacation this year, blame the business execs that teleconfrence instead of fly to the meetings.

• Pilots who deliberately cost the company as much as they can. I know a few who will do anything and everything to make sure AMR runs out of money. This includes bidding from plane to plane every chance they can so that the company has to train them again and again. This is not only expensive and counter productive, but it is a very immature and bone-headed move. Also, I'm tired of pilots slowing down just so they can time out or over-block. This is what I mean by do your job as you were hired to. If you are filed at Mach .76, don't fly it at .73 just so you get in 5-10 minutes late every flight. In addition, sick call abuse costs the company a lot of money too. Think about how many salaries could be paid if people only called in sick when they actually were sick.

3. I wasn't here then, you're right, but neither were you. We used to be worth looking up to. I'm not asking for those times to come back, but nobody but ourselves can take our pride and professionalism away from us but ourselves.

4. I'm not blaming my low salary on anyone else. I knew the pay-grade when I applied. I just didn't think I would be on turbo-prop pay or stay on reserve so long. What I was trying to say is that until you have done everything you could to make this company profitable, you can't blame others for not doing the same.

5. This was just to sum up my frustration with lazy or dishonest pilots. Stop blaming others and work hard.


My stance on these issues stem from my raising and business degree. It is pretty simple to understand, when the company doesn't make money, neither do you (i.e. you get furloughed), when they do, you do (i.e. you keep your job). Next time you take a swing at me make sure you get a little wood on the ball (all in good fun).

IBPilot

wow...and you constantly whine about how much better your regional is than Mesa, Pinnacle etc.......

Mason32

Sorry, don't think so. OH BTW, it isn't my regional.

Mason32

Yes, and while your 8 hours pay day at sonic would require 10 hours per day, and result in perhaps 50 hours away from home and family... the same 8 hour pay day at your airline requires 12-16 hours per day, and results in about 80-100 hours away from home and family. You're making less than 6 bucks and hour for your time as a pilot.

We are not talking about GNP and available jobs per capita. We are talking about the number of pilots required at ONE airline to cover their flying. If you can not admit that flying overtime allows them to keep less pilots on staff, than your MBA is worthless.... get a refund.

all the more reason NOT to work overtime.

Yep, a shrinking economy is a factor. Just as pilots flying overtime is a factor. Pilots as a group do not have control over the economy, you do have control over working voluntary overtime.

FYI, next time your upset about flying with somebody doing .73 instead of .79, when you get there 5-10 minutes late (an on time arrival BTW for DOT purposes), check the calculated fuel burn, vs what you actually used... you may be surprised.


Ah ha, wrong again... I've probably been in and out of this industry more years than you've been alive.

Many still are... if you'd shut off your ipod long enough to listen, perhaps you might just learn something. There are still pilots who ARE Captains... most do not understand the meaning of PIC other than to assume they garner a larger paycheck and log the flight time differently... and - according to the newer younger pilots - refuse to leave and get out of their seat.
Your airline hired you because they saw the ability in you to someday command one of their aircraft. They do not hire First Officers.... they ALL hire furture Captains. Stop whining.

You are kidding me right? You're at AMR, Eagle right? Go look at how long people have been on reserve at American. DECADES ! You may have known the pay grade, but apparently you didn't check into much else.

your still trying to tell people that you don't drink the Koolaid right ?

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with doing your job. We're talking about doing voluntary overtime.

Oh, so that is how it works. Thanks for that... that must explain the executive bonus programs, and how AMR management is compensated up to 10 times more than the other airlines they like to use to compare your salary.


Keep talking (writing) you're making my case for me the more you talk.

eaglefly

I can understand junior F/O's not wasting their time with OT, but senior captains can pick up an extra day of work per month (many have 15-18) and make $850 or more. That's a monthly mortgage payment (P & I).

Actually, the pilots that are truly agressive with OT are fairly junior captains who rarely touched OT when F/O's but now see the OT issue completely differently...........especially when they've recently bought a new house because of their recent upgrade and substantial pay raise.

I see this all the time...........it's just the way it is.

AmericanEagleFO

1. I would rather fly a two or three day trip and get my 13 hours of pay plus perdiem than work 50 hours a week at sonic at $7 an hour over a week. This just makes sense to me. In the end I'll get to spend more time with my family.

2. Morally, we are talking about jobs per capita, at least I am. I will conceed that working OT does make the required jobs at an airline less, but keep in mind one would be making the required jobs per capita one less by picking up a second job. So, by looking at the larger picture you will see that we are talking about jobs per capita.

3. I tell you I make less money and you tell me "all the more reason NOT to work overtime". This doesn't make sense to me. I guess you were elluding to me getting a second job, but as my previous point proves this would be futile. We are going to take away from those furloughed somehow. <--- Sorry for those of you that actually were furloughed from eagle. I need that overtime to make up for the difference between jet and turbo-prop pay.

4. To be clear, I never work overtime to help the company, I would work it in order to help my family. I would agree that we don't need to be picking up OT unless we really need it. Also, to be clear, I have only picked up OT once and it cancled before I even left the house so in a way I've never worked OT, just got paid for it once.

5. I'm not talking about flying faster than planned, I'm talking about flying the a/c as the company has asked us to. You would be correct by saying that flying slower does reduce fuel burn, but it isn't our job to decide what the ideal fuel burn should be for a particular flight. Eagle hires people a lot smarter than me to calculate this and many other financial figures for our flights. I don't pretend to know what is better for the company.

6. I never questioned your work history. I was reffering to when we were BOTH children and wanted to be big fancy airline pilots. This would insinuate that you were not an airline pilot yet, hence you weren't here either.

7. A blanket statement that I should have been more clear about. Most all of the captains I've flown with were very respectable. Especially on the ATR side. Only a small few have shown to be otherwise. I was more or less referring to those newer FOs like me who are still trying to figure out the system and it's delicate balance. Instead of trying to do anything and everything to be helpful to the industry, many just want to blame others for their problems. One of the best things about Eagle is that our captains have been in this industry for quite a while. A point I was well aware of when I applied. I knew I wasn't going to get a 2 year upgrade here, thank goodness. You are right though and I will say it again, MANY of the pilots I've flown with were very honorable. I also conceed that I may be whining a little, but what else are we doing with this entire topic. I am only 2 posts out of 60.

8. I was well aware of the staffing issues at American, but I was hired at American Eagle. Different company with different pilots, well some are different. I didn't find the wealth of information on these boards until after I had applied. I wasn't expecting a whole lot in the first place though.

9. Not the Kool-aid, this statement is based off a strong moral raising and an education in business. I'm not really a fan of Kool-aid.

10. I agree. Picking up overtime just to help the company with their own staffing issues does eliminate required jobs. They put themselves in this situation, let them figure out how to solve it. I'm solely talking about picking up OT for personal needs.

11. Never said I agree with their business model, I'm just talking about basic business theory. They are going to take those bonuses until we go bankrupt, so the only way to stay out of that pit is to do our best to make this company money, while doing it safely and professionally.


I'm not resorting to name calling, cutting remarks, or rude comments. I want to keep this as professional as possible. After all, you aren't going to change my mind by making fun of me. If you really wanted to change my mind you would stick to the facts and stay emotionally un-involved. I'm glad we are having this back and forth, it helps me decide what is right and wrong. I never said I was always right. I am sure there are many on these boards that have something to teach me. Thats why I choose to post, so that in turn I can learn from others. Lets stay on topic and away from the insults. You've got one more post to change my mind. After that I am going to agree to disagree and cease these posts out of respect for other readers.

withthatsaid182

this is really intense...too much reading...anyways forget it all...BBQ my house everyday this summer!

AmericanEagleFO

don't tell a bunch of starving pilots with travel privelidges that you'll feed us. We might take you up on it LOL. Nice status thatsaid. I vote for a topic change. I am reminded of a proverb, "better to me thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." My facebook status says that if I argue on the Internet and win does that still make me a loser. I've had many replies confirming this is true LOL.

SebastianDesoto

Heh, i was just sitting here thinking how i wish someone would have picked up the repo flight i got assigned. Its been sitting in open time for at least a week and makes great OT but horrible for reserve.

withthatsaid182

alright alright, here's a good one. Talk amongst the rank and file is that the 2nd group, those being furloughed on June 1st, might not get furloughed. Apparently staffing numbers are tight as it is.

This might just be another observation by someone on SABRE and they feel that this is what will happen but who knows.

Today is my last day with Eagle before the furlough. I picked up OT!!! GAHHHHH Just a short little YUL turn to get one last try at flying the thing.

To me the furlough was inevitable. When everyone else in the neighborhood is having a garage sale its only a matter of time before your boss wants to have one. The past year has been pretty hectic yet always entertaining for me. I understand this whole paying your dues thing but no matter who you are sitting S-1 day after day or sitting in your crashpad on RAP never getting called and flying 5 hours a month is no way to live no matter who you are. This is probably rock bottom or close to it so things can only get better. When that will be and how fast? Who knows.

People will pick up OT and you know what? Let them. Management will not recall me because there is too much open time. They'll just build another composite line or something. They'll recall me because available pilots day to day will be low and when bad wx strikes they'll really be in a pickle.

I'm fortunate because I never really left my old flying job and am right back in it. The Mrs. also has a decent paying job that'll help out. We shall see.