ToiletDuck

The RAH contract is still in the air. We have no idea what they are currently debating and yelling at those of us here about it isn't going to help anything one way or another. Feel free to be supportive all you'd like but give the rest a break. Another "I heard from a FA" thread with explosive results. It's comical. Lets worry about that situation if it arises.

US Air caps at $95 per hour from 10yrs on up.
RAH 10yr pay =$90 for 175+. At 12yrs equal. At 15yrs it's $10+ over US Air.

When everyone is arguing pay are they talking about first year FO pay? I have no doubt our guys are working on FO pay. Lets not play Micheal Moore with the numbers. They can all be pushed out of context. Why don't we all jump over to the cargo board and jump up and down on UPS guys because they pay $35 an hour to fly a 747! Truth be told there's always more than just that first little number everyone spouts. I know I know the FO pay still isn't great but give a little credit when due and appreciate everything that's taken place and the ability of the pilot group to contain it as well as they have. Given the extremely rapid expansion of the company as well has all the little holes they've tried to poke in the contract i'm still rather proud of my pilot group for the stances they've taken. I've seen other groups bend over and take it on some of these same issues where ours has stood firm and now is moving forward hopefully with current negotiations.

Bond

So what we gather from your post is that you're ok with the current pay scale because UPS pays $35 to fly 747. Actually, a new hire at UPS would probably not see the 74 for a few years, but that's besides the point.

Here's the problem with your post, you make it seem like if "we can do better that's great", if not "then that's great too" because we catch up to USair in 12 years (BTW, they are operating under concessions and haven't completed their contract)!!!

Seriously, if the "modern day Lorenzo" is inevitably going to bring the 190's on property the least you guys can ask for is Jetblue plus 10...that's at a bare minimum! But you and I know that the reverend isn't going to fork out that kinda of cash, so what are you prepare to do?

Will you just take the flying for the sake of growth and an upgrade at whatever rates his divine hand gives you? Or will you stand up for the future of the profession, for your career, and for what's right?

So toilet duck, what's it going to be? I've talked to some of your peers and they will put up a fight, but they are not "faithful" followers. Which will you choose?

Honest question, no flame.

ToiletDuck

Only if you didn't take the time to understand it.

Just jumpseated with them a few months ago where a newhire was an old CHQ guy off IOE from the 74.

We haven't completed our contract either. US Air is where they all came from in the first place. I've never implicated "if not then that's great too". What I've said, feel free to read it yourself, is that considering the rapid growth of the company(meaning fleet additions and extremely fast paced growth of flight crew numbers) and the uphill battle our pilots have had with them that I'm proud of my guys for have stood firm where others have fallen.

I'd like to see your comparisons. "Seriously". Frank L and JO might have a little more in common.

That's a great number. Where'd you get it from? Can you explain to me why that number makes sense? Is it possible you're just stabbing at random figures? What calculations did you do to come up with this solid and sound figure? You should consider work rules into your equation too. But anyway wouldn't this mean your time would be spent more wisely lecturing/complaining to the JetBlue and US Air guys who actually have the aircraft and are flying them for wages you don't think seem fit vs. companies who don't even have them? <--I'm dead serious if you can give me an answer to that my brain will be warped into some form of enlightenment never experienced by the likes of mankind. You have to admit it makes it seem more like you just hate a particular company, who shall remain nameless, rather then looking for the most effective form of internet picketing.

I'm sure the union will give them a figure based on what others are flying them for like everyone else does. Either they spring for it or they don't.

Well if you've read any of my previous posts regarding our situation you'd see I, nor anyone else, plan on flying any new additional aircraft for a number that doesn't seem fair. What determines fair will be based on many things from industry averages, company growth/finances, future outlook, work rules, and so fort. A simple "We want JBLU +$10" will get laughed at without something substantial to back it. If the time ever came I'd sit down, plug out the numbers, and decide where I'd draw the line. If not met they can keep them. I won't vote for a new larger type of aircraft on property at the expense of mainline pay or jobs. That simple. I'm content with being an FO until that is met.


Now my turn.

You keep pegging guys that work here with "Would you put up a fight or just take what he gives you". Do you not think that sounds a little hypocritical from someone who took a paycut from his management? Regardless of reason why it was still taken. Yes an FO might still make as much or more there than RAH but doesn't the point still stand? How much did that do for "the future of the profession, for your career, and for what's right"? What this points to is that everyone has a point where they'll take what's given when they consider it justified. You're on your side of the fence and we're on ours. Your guys were faced with a decision and felt it was justified to vote yes on the concessions. Those justifications are on your own personal levels. Your opinions are widely noted but might not always be shared by all those on our end. To each his own and you need to learn to accept that. Regardless of why you found it justified to take a pay cut you make less now than you did a year ago which is not what's "best for the profession". I'm not dogging it you did what you thought you had to do but I don't think it's proper for us to be lectured then about doing what's "best for the profession". As I said I'm proud of my pilot group for achieving the things they have and have faith they'll do the right thing in the future. It's a series to steps not a single leap.

STILL GROUNDED

Since that's not anything close to what I said I'll try to clear it up.

#1. Do I want to see 190 size aircraft at a regional airline.

Answer.. NO

#2. If they are going to end up at regional airline would I prefer to be working for the company getting the growth or would I rather fall on my sword sitting in the right seat forever while another company flies the aircraft.

Answer.. Would you fall on your sword for me? Have you?

#3. Do I think it is wise to be the highest paid amongst the regional airlines.

Answer.. No, ask ExpressJet and Comair how that worked out. 2 steps forward 3 steps back. There is a lesson in that.

To summarize my perspective. I do not want 190s at regional airlines, frankly I don't want crj's at the regional level. 50 seat turbo props or less please. If we have them do I want paid for them, yes. I will not be endorsing any contract that does not pay our pilots (both seats) reasonable wages for equipment current or forthcoming. If however I were to show up to work tomorrow and have a E 190 on the release that I was supposed to fly will I, yes. It was not mine to give up and I am not going to end up out of a job because someone else didn't have the stones to stand up for theirs.


I believe that the code shares we fly for and their pilot groups have much more control over what happens at regional airlines than we at regional airlines do. But frankly they have their hands full with problems directly effecting themselves. Until work rules and pay are standardized between all airlines there will always be someone willing to do for less what someone else won't if it means personal gain no matter how short term. Do I personally agree with that philosophy, honestly no. It has been detrimental to nearly everything in the world, and clearly to this industry.

Aviatormar

Know what's funny, that's not even that bad compared to some of the stuff I've herd. I had one guy on the jumpseat (an RAH FO) tell me that AWAC was bringing down the industry. I looked back at him and say, sure buddy, how so? His reason, we took a concessionary contract. I rolled my eyes, and explained to him all the things we have in our CONCESSIONARY, that was missing in RAH's contract. Little things like, trip/duty rigs, much better pay on the FO side of things and captain pay that was within spitting distance of their much larger aircraft, full deadhead pay, vacation trip touching, our 401k match and the list goes on. Funny thing, he didn't have much to say after that.
And to the poster who said deadheading pay isn't a big deal, really? You like doing stuff for the company when your only getting paid for 3/4 of the work you do? Let's see, if that logic follows you shouldn't have to do a walk around, because well, that's about 1/4 of what an FO does during his preflight duties. So, next time your walking around your BIG plane in the pouring rain, just remember the deadheading pay your missing out on!
Honestly, let's bring the bar up to at least our CONCESSIONARY contract, and I hope every single new contract is able to beat it (so far, Mesa has totally failed to live up to that, but that's just the MESA way of doing things! sorry guys that was too easy!). I honestly and sincerely hope that RAH can beat AWAC/Comair/Expressjet in the fight to get what's right!

BoilerUP

UPS hasn't had newhires in a while...

DLAJ77

"bigger plane at my company" funny stuff!!! typical ****yard pilot

av1atrx

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, this place is NOTHING like flightinfo.

Seattlecfi

How are you making $45k as a 2nd year FO. Per diem is not income, and if you are making that much, you are working way too much. It is your own decision to make, but making the move to a major was the best decision I could have made. I made more money, even on first year pay, averaged 16 days off a month, and never flew more than 65 hours. I know some people that went to other companies, and it didn't work out, but you can't get reward without risk.

gettinbumped

I still can't believe I just read that.