It might be time to come to terms...
04-04-2009, 07:34 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Hotel
Posts: 714
)?The problem with your argument is that pilot labor is not quite as in a vacuum as other commodities such as corn or oil.
We are commodities, and although oversupply causes the price of labor to go way down and quickly, a shortage will not cause the price of labor to go way up and quickly. Management has pretty good control over the supply side by means of raising and lowering minimums (except if there were a SEVERE shortage). Also, management has tools to lower pilot salaries while in contract; bankruptcy, etc. Pilots really have no tools to force a higher wage in contract.
So I guess what I'm saying is that fewer pilots may eventually mean higher cost of labor, but it will need to be much fewer pilots and for a longer time.
What we can do as a group is demand a higher price for our services in contract negotiations. This is what TSA is trying to do and something I think we will be successful with because of the change in administration.
I was there myself. I had a quite a bit more than 300 hours when I signed up 121, but was still one of those guys hoping to make this leap, endure the crap for 2 or 3 years and move up. But it became apparent that this wasn't the way it was going to be, so I dropped my resignation letter and walked.
Many are coming to the realization that it isn't worth it. But many others will stick it out regardless of how rough it gets. And the new sign-ups have no idea of the details, they just want to be airline pilots, and so it goes.
I certainly hope it works out for the industry. Its a crying shame that it is the way it is. I am mad on the surface, but am honestly more heartbroken than I may want to admit to. Being an airline pilot was my dream since I was a child. EVERYONE who knows me equates my name with flying and aspiring to do it, etc. But after two years of having "arrived", it became clear to me that what that young child yearned for just doesn't exist in this day and age.
But life goes on. I am still flight instructing as much as I want, have keys to a Cessna 150 I can fly whenever I want and that seems to be enough. I have realized as I've gotten older that there is so much more to life than flying. In fact, now that I am home every night, I am turning into quite the guitar player. I honestly get more enjoyment out of that than I do in an airplane cockpit.
04-05-2009, 04:29 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
The only problem with this is ALPA is a business...... They are in business to make money and new members are money. If you look at the last 10 years ALPA's recruitment of new or lost airlines has been in full swing. ALPA also was crying about how they were having financial problems after the exit of USAirways. They will take anyone who will pay dues regardless of experience or qualifications.
04-05-2009, 09:21 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 276
I have no regrets about leaving when I did. As to my involvement with the industry in the future, is to to be determined. I wasn't vested enough in the career to endure all this stuff. Had I been sitting left side, I'd have probably stuck it out. But, I had nothing really to lose and something else really big to gain. An unfortunate turn of events turned into a blessing in many ways. Making lemonade, as they say.
Some good points here. But the argument that management controls the supply side by raising and lowering minimums absolutely agrees with the concept of having a surplus of candidates, though lacking in qualifications, making up for it in SJS. These young chaps want to do the job, and pay is secondary - though most will complain and hold that they are worth so much more, they will continue collecting their peanuts every two weeks and not change a thing.
I was there myself. I had a quite a bit more than 300 hours when I signed up 121, but was still one of those guys hoping to make this leap, endure the crap for 2 or 3 years and move up. But it became apparent that this wasn't the way it was going to be, so I dropped my resignation letter and walked.
Many are coming to the realization that it isn't worth it. But many others will stick it out regardless of how rough it gets. And the new sign-ups have no idea of the details, they just want to be airline pilots, and so it goes.
I certainly hope it works out for the industry. Its a crying shame that it is the way it is. I am mad on the surface, but am honestly more heartbroken than I may want to admit to. Being an airline pilot was my dream since I was a child. EVERYONE who knows me equates my name with flying and aspiring to do it, etc. But after two years of having "arrived", it became clear to me that what that young child yearned for just doesn't exist in this day and age.
But life goes on. I am still flight instructing as much as I want, have keys to a Cessna 150 I can fly whenever I want and that seems to be enough. I have realized as I've gotten older that there is so much more to life than flying. In fact, now that I am home every night, I am turning into quite the guitar player. I honestly get more enjoyment out of that than I do in an airplane cockpit.
Some good points here. But the argument that management controls the supply side by raising and lowering minimums absolutely agrees with the concept of having a surplus of candidates, though lacking in qualifications, making up for it in SJS. These young chaps want to do the job, and pay is secondary - though most will complain and hold that they are worth so much more, they will continue collecting their peanuts every two weeks and not change a thing.
I was there myself. I had a quite a bit more than 300 hours when I signed up 121, but was still one of those guys hoping to make this leap, endure the crap for 2 or 3 years and move up. But it became apparent that this wasn't the way it was going to be, so I dropped my resignation letter and walked.
Many are coming to the realization that it isn't worth it. But many others will stick it out regardless of how rough it gets. And the new sign-ups have no idea of the details, they just want to be airline pilots, and so it goes.
I certainly hope it works out for the industry. Its a crying shame that it is the way it is. I am mad on the surface, but am honestly more heartbroken than I may want to admit to. Being an airline pilot was my dream since I was a child. EVERYONE who knows me equates my name with flying and aspiring to do it, etc. But after two years of having "arrived", it became clear to me that what that young child yearned for just doesn't exist in this day and age.
But life goes on. I am still flight instructing as much as I want, have keys to a Cessna 150 I can fly whenever I want and that seems to be enough. I have realized as I've gotten older that there is so much more to life than flying. In fact, now that I am home every night, I am turning into quite the guitar player. I honestly get more enjoyment out of that than I do in an airplane cockpit.
04-05-2009, 01:16 PM
#64
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Epiphany
About six months after separation from the airlines an epiphany sweeps over you as the death grip of addiction that aviation has on your life begins to relax.
The experience is like waking up from a trance. You suddenly realize that you have gotten many of your hobbies and interests back. You know your spouse and children again. You notice that you are not tired all the time. Friends and family return.
Your health and strength comes back. It is amazing. Then you begin to realize the impact of all that was lost during the airline years.
Skyhigh
The experience is like waking up from a trance. You suddenly realize that you have gotten many of your hobbies and interests back. You know your spouse and children again. You notice that you are not tired all the time. Friends and family return.
Your health and strength comes back. It is amazing. Then you begin to realize the impact of all that was lost during the airline years.
Skyhigh
04-05-2009, 01:21 PM
#65
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 25
About six months after separation from the airlines an epiphany sweeps over you as the death grip of addiction that aviation has on your life begins to relax.
The experience is like waking up from a trance. You suddenly realize that you have gotten many of your hobbies and interests back. You know your spouse and children again. You notice that you are not tired all the time. Friends and family return.
Your health and strength comes back. It is amazing. Then you begin to realize the impact of all that was lost during the airline years.
Skyhigh
The experience is like waking up from a trance. You suddenly realize that you have gotten many of your hobbies and interests back. You know your spouse and children again. You notice that you are not tired all the time. Friends and family return.
Your health and strength comes back. It is amazing. Then you begin to realize the impact of all that was lost during the airline years.
Skyhigh
Where's the tissue, someone get me a tissue, that was so touching. It moved me........ moved me bowels......... LOL!
04-05-2009, 01:25 PM
#66
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
04-05-2009, 10:28 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CFII. MEI - C150 seatlocked.
Posts: 74
I have no regrets about leaving when I did. As to my involvement with the industry in the future, is to to be determined. I wasn't vested enough in the career to endure all this stuff. Had I been sitting left side, I'd have probably stuck it out. But, I had nothing really to lose and something else really big to gain. An unfortunate turn of events turned into a blessing in many ways. Making lemonade, as they say.
Some good points here. But the argument that management controls the supply side by raising and lowering minimums absolutely agrees with the concept of having a surplus of candidates, though lacking in qualifications, making up for it in SJS. These young chaps want to do the job, and pay is secondary - though most will complain and hold that they are worth so much more, they will continue collecting their peanuts every two weeks and not change a thing.
I was there myself. I had a quite a bit more than 300 hours when I signed up 121, but was still one of those guys hoping to make this leap, endure the crap for 2 or 3 years and move up. But it became apparent that this wasn't the way it was going to be, so I dropped my resignation letter and walked.
Many are coming to the realization that it isn't worth it. But many others will stick it out regardless of how rough it gets. And the new sign-ups have no idea of the details, they just want to be airline pilots, and so it goes.
I certainly hope it works out for the industry. Its a crying shame that it is the way it is. I am mad on the surface, but am honestly more heartbroken than I may want to admit to. Being an airline pilot was my dream since I was a child. EVERYONE who knows me equates my name with flying and aspiring to do it, etc. But after two years of having "arrived", it became clear to me that what that young child yearned for just doesn't exist in this day and age.
But life goes on. I am still flight instructing as much as I want, have keys to a Cessna 150 I can fly whenever I want and that seems to be enough. I have realized as I've gotten older that there is so much more to life than flying. In fact, now that I am home every night, I am turning into quite the guitar player. I honestly get more enjoyment out of that than I do in an airplane cockpit.
Some good points here. But the argument that management controls the supply side by raising and lowering minimums absolutely agrees with the concept of having a surplus of candidates, though lacking in qualifications, making up for it in SJS. These young chaps want to do the job, and pay is secondary - though most will complain and hold that they are worth so much more, they will continue collecting their peanuts every two weeks and not change a thing.
I was there myself. I had a quite a bit more than 300 hours when I signed up 121, but was still one of those guys hoping to make this leap, endure the crap for 2 or 3 years and move up. But it became apparent that this wasn't the way it was going to be, so I dropped my resignation letter and walked.
Many are coming to the realization that it isn't worth it. But many others will stick it out regardless of how rough it gets. And the new sign-ups have no idea of the details, they just want to be airline pilots, and so it goes.
I certainly hope it works out for the industry. Its a crying shame that it is the way it is. I am mad on the surface, but am honestly more heartbroken than I may want to admit to. Being an airline pilot was my dream since I was a child. EVERYONE who knows me equates my name with flying and aspiring to do it, etc. But after two years of having "arrived", it became clear to me that what that young child yearned for just doesn't exist in this day and age.
But life goes on. I am still flight instructing as much as I want, have keys to a Cessna 150 I can fly whenever I want and that seems to be enough. I have realized as I've gotten older that there is so much more to life than flying. In fact, now that I am home every night, I am turning into quite the guitar player. I honestly get more enjoyment out of that than I do in an airplane cockpit.
04-06-2009, 11:08 AM
#68
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
What used to be a sacrifice in the beginning for a prize at the end, is just....................well a sacrifice
04-06-2009, 01:06 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
I love it! You guys make me laugh everyday. "this industry sucks, I hate it...blah blah blah". None of you would trade it for anything. I know, I truly hate my computer job. High stress, back stabbing corp BS 7x24 on call every day! Want my job? You can fracking have it! My wife and I have a game we play every morning, I threaten to quit because I am so dang bored I don't think I can handle another day. She says quit and we can live off love and rice while I make $1000.00 per month and we loose the house, the cars, camper, bikes, Bonanza....everything while I pay an airline to fly their planes. Is it worth it? Maybe. In the morning do you say to yourself "I hate my job" or do I say "yippee, I get to fly a high performance airplane today". I suspect the later.
Last edited by 577nitro; 04-06-2009 at 01:11 PM. Reason: Spellling
04-06-2009, 01:11 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Out
Posts: 448
I love it! You guys make me laugh everyday. "this industry sucks, I hate it...blah blah blah". None of you would trade it for anything. I know, I truly hate my computer job. High stress, back stabbing corp BS 7x24 on call every day! Want my job? You can fracking have it! My wife an I have a game we play every morning, I threaten to quit because I am so dang bored I don't think I can handle another day. She says quit and we can live off love and rice while I make $1000.00 per month and we loose the house, the cars, camper, bikes, Bonanza....everything while I pay an airline to fly their planes. Is it worth? Maybe, but do you say to your self in the morning "I hate my job" or do you say "yippee, I get to a high performance airplane today". I'm sure the later.
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