JDFlyer

Lest there be any confusion, becoming a board certified attorney or physician in a particular state is not equivalent to joining a union.

A State Bar Association or Medical Association may be run by fellow attorneys and physicians, but they are governed by their respective state laws as enacted by their respective state legislatures. In other words, admission to the "association" is government regulated, just like aviation.

The government has a compelling interest in regulating admission to these industries to protect the welfare of the public. As for aviation, unless airplanes start falling out of the sky because the commercial pilot/multi-engine pilot/ATP standards are too low, the government will not change the rules. Public safety, so far, is not proven to be in jeopardy with the current commercial aviation standards.

- J.D. Flyer

wizepilot

Okay Ace. Let's see, hmmm, I am 56 years old, been flying since I was 20. Okay, the educated guys, nothing wrong with that, they will get there. As far as experience, I think it's fair to say I was getting it before most of you were out of college. By the way, I did go to college, just did not graduate. I have, and always will have more "real" world EXPERIENCE than you could even dream of having. So button it and get in YOUR place in the "real" world.

theaviator

Sorry but flying planes your whole life doesn't constitute being out in the "real" world. Just becuase your 56 doesnt make you so wize. My facts are right, just ask around ace.

wizepilot

Ya know, in your original post quoteing me, you said you did not necessarily agree that things should be the way they are. Namely, people who are not as educated should be able to get whatever job they want, as long as they are qualified. So what makes you more qualified than me? If we were going for the same job in aviation, and let's say I had 7,000 hours and you had 2,000 hours, we held the same ratings, only difference was total time. Try and tell me that an interviewer is going to take you with your experience over me with mine, just because you hold a degree. Now, what world are you living in? I am so sick of people like you who think they are ENTITLED to whatever job just because they hold a degree. Tell me, how old are you? You don't know me. Do you own and run your own business like I do? It's people like you, with this arrogance and attitude, that make me want to puke. By the way, you spelled wise wrong (not wize). See ya!

Diver Driver

Actually most major carriers require a bachelor degree now. For the sake of argument if you both go head to head for one position, you having 7,000TT/1,000TPIC and "theaviator" having 2,000TT/1,000TPIC and a four year degree, I feel that "the aviator" would have the better chance of landing that job. Knowing nothing else, I would be more inclined to choose him if I were on the hiring board.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. Having a degree says a lot about a person. It shows that they are able to start a rigorous course of study and finish it. In addition to that, those with degrees are more well rounded individuals. There are other reasons, but this is just the way it is.

Before I got furloughed, I could usually tell if the captain I was flying with had a degree or not. There really isn't one key indicator that gives it away, you can just tell. I think having two college educated pilots up front makes a positive difference in the cockpit and I would welcome it as a requirement for holding an ATP certificate.

bryris

Talking about having a degree or not is just a tool to make one feel more elite. There is nothing about a college degree that is going to make one a better pilot than another....PERIOD. Experience does matter, however, all other things equal.

However, in a sea of pilots all barking, "mine, mine, mine" over an available position, a hiring board might utilize a degree as a weed out tool. However, where do you draw the line? Some degrees are a piece of a cake, others aren't. One with an engineering degree deserves greater kudos than one with an aviation science, psychology, mass comm, etc degree.

Hiring is subjective, always has been, always will be. You make your resume look the best it can and try to sell yourself. You'll win or lose based on many factors, the presence of a degree being one in a sea of others.

theaviator

First, I never said I was entitled to anything. Second, this thread has nothing to do with me thinking im entitled to anything. Third, I dont think I even said I had a degree. So I really have no idea why you think im talking about myself. Im simply stating the facts. A guy with an education has a better chance than a guy who does not. Whether its right or not, thats another thing. I DONT think it right by any means. But im afraid, thats the way things run now. I am agreeing with you on almost every aspect. Experience means more than a degree. You have more experience than me, no doubt. And no doubt YOU should get a flying job over me if you are a better pilot. However, As a few other posters have already agreed with me, you will see your thinking may not be correct. This, I have more experience I am going to get the job, is not always correct anymore. And another thing, the "wize" spelled wrong, thats in your screen name! I was poking fun at you.

In a nut shell, I agree with you. I dont feel entitled to any job. Experience over a degree is the way it should be. Executives from big companies, they do not agree. Thats just the way things are going right now.

tsd685

On the original point of this post, I've seen a lot like it, and I'm having a hard time finding a whole lot of merit to the argument.

There's a lot of starving artists who think their passion deserves more respect because they preserve a piece of cultural history.
Whether you agree or not, that's their position.
Yes I'm comparing pilots and artists....cuz there seems to be a lot of whining with both jobs.

Some of us will fly no matter how low the pay...well good on them, they truly enjoy the cockpit. But it seems that if we keep trying to artificially inflate pay scales with threatening and profession wide motions, we hurt the very businesses that employ us.

Market creates job, x person fills it, x person is fulfilled.

When I get to the point that the perks and the pay doesn't add up to a satisfying job for me, I'll move on. that's the world. We're not the only profession in the world that doesn't feel "appreciated"

PolishPilot

Comparing artist to pilots might not be the best analogy, since pilots are more of a skilled labor than artists. I feel like, a good artist is good because of talent. And im not saying artist don't go to school to train their craft, but you can't compare that to the type of training pilots go through. I honestly think that our jobs are more on the lines of doctors and lawyers. Simply because pilots never stop learning in their lines of work. There's always something new that pilots learn, or even re-learn. How many times pilots go, oh man its been a while since i've seen this let me look it up. It happens all the time.
The unfortunate thing is that you're right, pilots will fly no matter how low the pay is, but it HAS to stop somewhere right? I mean you're going to tell me that a new young pilot will spend 50K on training and go into a job to make 18K?
I guess as an instructor, it should start with us, we should tell the students what's right and wrong and maybe sometime in the future it will change. (hopefully)

bryris

Yes.

Not enough characters, so I added this sentence.