How to increase pilot's salary
03-17-2009, 03:10 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 424
I believe there is too wide of a spectrum of pilots even within one airline to accomplish such a industry-wide referendum. Older pilots for example do not want to jeapordize retirement income in order to make sure first yr FO's get a higher pay rate.
It needs to start with the new hires picking the best airlines to work for. That will, in turn, force the lower end airlines to match the QOL and pay.
What ALPA can do is develop some kind of program to help new pilots wanting to become airline pilots and CFI's who are building hours toward an airline job to help guide them. Besides these kind of forums and word-of-mouth info, no one knows what is a good airline besides a quick upgrade and first year pay.
In fact, I have seen posts on this forum recommending for a CFI to go to the airline which has the quickest upgrade without any other considerations. THAT is the problem right there.
It needs to start with the new hires picking the best airlines to work for. That will, in turn, force the lower end airlines to match the QOL and pay.
What ALPA can do is develop some kind of program to help new pilots wanting to become airline pilots and CFI's who are building hours toward an airline job to help guide them. Besides these kind of forums and word-of-mouth info, no one knows what is a good airline besides a quick upgrade and first year pay.
In fact, I have seen posts on this forum recommending for a CFI to go to the airline which has the quickest upgrade without any other considerations. THAT is the problem right there.
03-17-2009, 04:32 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: I only fly multi-winged airplanes.
Posts: 321
I believe there is too wide of a spectrum of pilots even within one airline to accomplish such a industry-wide referendum. Older pilots for example do not want to jeapordize retirement income in order to make sure first yr FO's get a higher pay rate.
It needs to start with the new hires picking the best airlines to work for. That will, in turn, force the lower end airlines to match the QOL and pay.
What ALPA can do is develop some kind of program to help new pilots wanting to become airline pilots and CFI's who are building hours toward an airline job to help guide them. Besides these kind of forums and word-of-mouth info, no one knows what is a good airline besides a quick upgrade and first year pay.
In fact, I have seen posts on this forum recommending for a CFI to go to the airline which has the quickest upgrade without any other considerations. THAT is the problem right there.
It needs to start with the new hires picking the best airlines to work for. That will, in turn, force the lower end airlines to match the QOL and pay.
What ALPA can do is develop some kind of program to help new pilots wanting to become airline pilots and CFI's who are building hours toward an airline job to help guide them. Besides these kind of forums and word-of-mouth info, no one knows what is a good airline besides a quick upgrade and first year pay.
In fact, I have seen posts on this forum recommending for a CFI to go to the airline which has the quickest upgrade without any other considerations. THAT is the problem right there.
You raise a good point...but remember...If you are a 10 year captain you probably want the younger guys making decent money so that they DONT lower the bar. So to not stick up for each other as a whole in any company is very selfish and short sided. If the older guys dont look out for the younger guys, why should the younger guys care about the quality of life of the older guys when they just need to get their foot in the door. It is a viscious cycle that stems from selfishness, lack of leadership, and pure stupidity.
03-17-2009, 06:30 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
how would a strike on such a large scale be organized? To me, it seems that if every pilot walked out, the management would have no choice but to accommodate the demands of the pilot force. Just getting everyone on board is probably impossible. Like said before, why would a senior captain making a good salary want to go on strike? he's probably not going to gain much from the strike, UNLESS the demands requested by the pilots actually do take in consideration, not only the new and young pilots, but the senior pilots as well. Maybe because we do have too many pilots in this country, it gives the management some upper hand in control. If they know they can replace any pilot at any time, then why should they care about you? You're just as easily replaceable. So if my idea of having an extra 5 bucks, or whatever it is, per seat mandated by ALL airlines, so that the average joe can not escape the fee, then perhaps we have to wait until management runs out of applications and schools run out of CFIs. Perhaps then pilots would have a something to use against management to get better pay, etc.
AND why cant there be a law that in order to fly passengers for an airline, both the First officer and Captain must have ATP minimums? wouldn't this solve the problem of having too many 300hr first officers? every pilot would have to find some kind of job, instructing or banner towing, in order to get there. Then, maybe the airlines would be something to look forward too.
AND why cant there be a law that in order to fly passengers for an airline, both the First officer and Captain must have ATP minimums? wouldn't this solve the problem of having too many 300hr first officers? every pilot would have to find some kind of job, instructing or banner towing, in order to get there. Then, maybe the airlines would be something to look forward too.
03-17-2009, 11:38 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 117
Before the oil went crazy this summer, regional HR departments (Eagle, Comair) had people lining up around the corner for 20-25k/yr. jobs.
If that figure was 10-15k, it would still be the same.
That's why there's no pay.
If that figure was 10-15k, it would still be the same.
That's why there's no pay.
03-18-2009, 01:11 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 384
As long as there are throngs of pilots who accept the low wages there is no reason to raise the salaries. Heck, I'm guilty as the next guy for taking the first year FO wage. The companies have no reason to raise salaries, that defeats their goal of making money. I really do wish there would be some way to do a work stoppage to show execs and the public that the pilot group deserves more. I think just talking about it helps get the word out that something needs to be done.
03-18-2009, 03:40 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 125
AND why cant there be a law that in order to fly passengers for an airline, both the First officer and Captain must have ATP minimums? wouldn't this solve the problem of having too many 300hr first officers? every pilot would have to find some kind of job, instructing or banner towing, in order to get there. Then, maybe the airlines would be something to look forward too.
Now there is a way that ALPA could be of some good use. Lobby congress to change the law that only those with ATP minimum qualifications could fly large Turbo-Props and any jet aircraft under 121 carriage. Compass has this requirement and all of their new hires are typed in the aircraft. This would take away the volatility of hiring and allow pilots to demand proper compensation. A guy right out of a pilot mill with a wet ticket really is in no position to demand 45-60K as a start, but a type rated ATP could.
Now there is a way that ALPA could be of some good use. Lobby congress to change the law that only those with ATP minimum qualifications could fly large Turbo-Props and any jet aircraft under 121 carriage. Compass has this requirement and all of their new hires are typed in the aircraft. This would take away the volatility of hiring and allow pilots to demand proper compensation. A guy right out of a pilot mill with a wet ticket really is in no position to demand 45-60K as a start, but a type rated ATP could.
03-18-2009, 05:18 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 424
I may be wrong about this but I believe when the union (ALPA for instance) and the airline management negotiate a pay raise for pilots it is up to the union to decide how that additional money is distributed across the pilot group.
I think it is because union leadership is comprised of basically senior captains at that airline who have the interests of themselves and other senior captains at heart then you will always end up with a "top heavy" payscale. Not to say this is absolutely universal, but it could be that your own union is betraying the junior pilots.
In a sense it is good to have something to look forward to as far as pay and QOL as you move up in seniority but the junior FOs should be active with the union to make sure everyone gets a piece of the action
I think it is because union leadership is comprised of basically senior captains at that airline who have the interests of themselves and other senior captains at heart then you will always end up with a "top heavy" payscale. Not to say this is absolutely universal, but it could be that your own union is betraying the junior pilots.
In a sense it is good to have something to look forward to as far as pay and QOL as you move up in seniority but the junior FOs should be active with the union to make sure everyone gets a piece of the action
03-18-2009, 07:52 AM
#39
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
I know this might sound harsh to some of you guys, but why haven't you done anything about it? Im just being realistic here, if there is anything you guys can do, then why not do it? is it that hard to organize pilots to do something collectively? get involved with the Union, raise those minimums to be an airline pilot, or anything to get their attention that pilots cant be treated this way. Im a CFI and i would have no problem with working until I met the requirements for ATP, and I think I'll get there before Ill actually have the opportunity to go to an airline. I'll probably just get my ATP in a seminole 
... Now, that the hiring boom is over, most airlines will have higher minimums but its all going to change as soon as they need more pilots. And when that time comes around and they don't have any pilots, perhaps then you can ask for better pay.
... Now, that the hiring boom is over, most airlines will have higher minimums but its all going to change as soon as they need more pilots. And when that time comes around and they don't have any pilots, perhaps then you can ask for better pay.
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