View Poll Results: Are you happy with ALPA at the regionals?
Yes
17
16.35%
No
87
83.65%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll
May 1999 to May 2009 Pinnacle Contract
03-14-2009, 10:10 AM
#31
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: CRJ-700 Captain
Posts: 53
[quote=PinnacleFO;577397]The whole system is flawed, why should pilots have to inconveniece passengers to get a pay raise?
Because it is the only way to get the attention of mgmt.
If the plane is broke or if you are tired, you don't fly it period. But you don't make stuff up and taxi slow and make people miss their connections just to try to get a contract.
Yes, you do. It sucks for the pax and it is not fun but it is how you
get a contract.
That should be the union negotiators job to get a contract, thats why they credit 100 plus hours a month and its obvious after 5 years that they can't get the job done.
It is their job and I am sure they are trying. So it is up to the line
pilots to help them by being a thorn in the pax/DAL side. When you lay
waste to D-0, A-14, and CF, then you will begin to see things change.
DAL will threaten to take your flying. They might even cut some of your
flying for a while. It might suck for some of you for a while. But it beats
working under a crappy contract indefinitely.
Because it is the only way to get the attention of mgmt.
If the plane is broke or if you are tired, you don't fly it period. But you don't make stuff up and taxi slow and make people miss their connections just to try to get a contract.
Yes, you do. It sucks for the pax and it is not fun but it is how you
get a contract.
That should be the union negotiators job to get a contract, thats why they credit 100 plus hours a month and its obvious after 5 years that they can't get the job done.
It is their job and I am sure they are trying. So it is up to the line
pilots to help them by being a thorn in the pax/DAL side. When you lay
waste to D-0, A-14, and CF, then you will begin to see things change.
DAL will threaten to take your flying. They might even cut some of your
flying for a while. It might suck for some of you for a while. But it beats
working under a crappy contract indefinitely.
03-14-2009, 07:10 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Assistant Greens Keeper
Posts: 1,011
[quote=fboehm;578218]
Thank You, but im gonna have to guess that you work at ASA or some airline where the pilots/union have ball*...
Look at AA
Schnurman: American Airlines pilots need a reality check | Business | Star-Telegram.com
After 5 years I hope people dont feel bad for us, I hope they are laughing at us.
The whole system is flawed, why should pilots have to inconveniece passengers to get a pay raise?
Because it is the only way to get the attention of mgmt.
If the plane is broke or if you are tired, you don't fly it period. But you don't make stuff up and taxi slow and make people miss their connections just to try to get a contract.
Yes, you do. It sucks for the pax and it is not fun but it is how you
get a contract.
That should be the union negotiators job to get a contract, thats why they credit 100 plus hours a month and its obvious after 5 years that they can't get the job done.
It is their job and I am sure they are trying. So it is up to the line
pilots to help them by being a thorn in the pax/DAL side. When you lay
waste to D-0, A-14, and CF, then you will begin to see things change.
DAL will threaten to take your flying. They might even cut some of your
flying for a while. It might suck for some of you for a while. But it beats
working under a crappy contract indefinitely.
Because it is the only way to get the attention of mgmt.
If the plane is broke or if you are tired, you don't fly it period. But you don't make stuff up and taxi slow and make people miss their connections just to try to get a contract.
Yes, you do. It sucks for the pax and it is not fun but it is how you
get a contract.
That should be the union negotiators job to get a contract, thats why they credit 100 plus hours a month and its obvious after 5 years that they can't get the job done.
It is their job and I am sure they are trying. So it is up to the line
pilots to help them by being a thorn in the pax/DAL side. When you lay
waste to D-0, A-14, and CF, then you will begin to see things change.
DAL will threaten to take your flying. They might even cut some of your
flying for a while. It might suck for some of you for a while. But it beats
working under a crappy contract indefinitely.
Thank You, but im gonna have to guess that you work at ASA or some airline where the pilots/union have ball*...
Look at AA
Schnurman: American Airlines pilots need a reality check | Business | Star-Telegram.com
After 5 years I hope people dont feel bad for us, I hope they are laughing at us.
03-14-2009, 08:02 PM
#33
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
If that can be done now, without delays, why would it suddenly cause delays? Are you saying that safety doesn't come first, right now, as performance numbers are high? If managemenet suddenly gives you an industry leading contract tomorrow, suddenly safety isn't so important - we'll get the flights out on time.
If you are going to dot every i and cross every t, while in negotiations, to send management a message, claiming safety, then why isn't every i being dotted, and ever t crossed, when not in negotiations. JMHO, but the way it comes across, if, until management gives us what we want, we are playing "safety first", and delaying flights, so our numbers decline, but as as soon as they give us a contract, we'll do whatever we have to, to get flights out on time. In the latter, did safety suddenly go out the window? Seems inconsistant to me.
If you are going to dot every i and cross every t, while in negotiations, to send management a message, claiming safety, then why isn't every i being dotted, and ever t crossed, when not in negotiations. JMHO, but the way it comes across, if, until management gives us what we want, we are playing "safety first", and delaying flights, so our numbers decline, but as as soon as they give us a contract, we'll do whatever we have to, to get flights out on time. In the latter, did safety suddenly go out the window? Seems inconsistant to me.
This is an offensive statement. You have NO IDEA what lengths WE go to to make sure YOU and the passengers get to your destination safe and on time.
I am very suspicious of you anyways. You are NOT a 121 pilot but use words like "we will," what is your angle? Do you just like playing pilot on a airline pilot forum and then questioning our safety standards?
Maybe I should go to a forums for dentist and talk about things I know nothing about.
03-15-2009, 12:19 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 614
Our professionalism is what kills us all in this job. I would like to think that most of us dont do things intentionally to ruin operations and the likes. MGT plays this angle against us, because they know most of us will still show up and do our jobs. With every right comes a level of resposibilty. Our right is to fly these aircraft, and the resposibility that comes with it is to operate them safely and to the best of our ability. Remember that we choose to come to work everyday, and we have a right to show up to work or not to. It is the right that you have bestowed on your union to represent you, and it is their resposibility to do so. It is your right to decide who represents you, and it is your responsibility to ensure that they represent you in a proper manner. If they fail to do so, then it is your responsiblity to make the sacrifices necessary to create an envirornment that will work for you as a whole. It is through this resposibility that you will face certain consequences that you will and others will face due to your actions and decisions, some of which may be popular, and some may not. You entered this career as a professional, and god willing we will all leave this profession as such. Harming the very people (passengers) that make you job necessary may well be the course of action that we all someday may face, but remember that managment always has an out, and we as pilots may not. Dont cut your nose off to spite your face. Dig your heels in and do you job, check your pride at the door, and go home to you family when the day is over, remember that it is your airline, and tommorow is a new opportunity to improve on today, tommorow is new day:,)
03-15-2009, 06:37 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: EMB145
Posts: 772
just remember that contract maintenance is around $100-$200/hr with usally a 3 hr min.
you got to keep all them screws in the carpet moldings tight, someone could trip and die!!
plus on long sits and overnights the pax wouldnt even know, but mgt would sure enjoy the bills
you got to keep all them screws in the carpet moldings tight, someone could trip and die!!
plus on long sits and overnights the pax wouldnt even know, but mgt would sure enjoy the bills
03-15-2009, 07:10 AM
#36
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
If that can be done now, without delays, why would it suddenly cause delays? Are you saying that safety doesn't come first, right now, as performance numbers are high? If managemenet suddenly gives you an industry leading contract tomorrow, suddenly safety isn't so important - we'll get the flights out on time.
If you are going to dot every i and cross every t, while in negotiations, to send management a message, claiming safety, then why isn't every i being dotted, and ever t crossed, when not in negotiations. JMHO, but the way it comes across, if, until management gives us what we want, we are playing "safety first", and delaying flights, so our numbers decline, but as as soon as they give us a contract, we'll do whatever we have to, to get flights out on time. In the latter, did safety suddenly go out the window? Seems inconsistant to me.
If you are going to dot every i and cross every t, while in negotiations, to send management a message, claiming safety, then why isn't every i being dotted, and ever t crossed, when not in negotiations. JMHO, but the way it comes across, if, until management gives us what we want, we are playing "safety first", and delaying flights, so our numbers decline, but as as soon as they give us a contract, we'll do whatever we have to, to get flights out on time. In the latter, did safety suddenly go out the window? Seems inconsistant to me.
Currently, my "managemenet" [sic] does not require a cell phone nor do they pay captains a stipend to have one. All of the CAs I have flown with use their money and airtime to call MX about a write up or dispatch about a bad release. They use their phones to keep pax on time. Otherwise, every discrepancy would require a walk into operations, wait for one of the two lines to be available, call HQ with the issue, then walk back to the plane. If they did this one thing, our on time performance would drop 20-30%.
In all things there are gray areas. When I look at the tires on my car and see the tread is getting thin, at what point do I replace them. If I am going on a long trip, I buy new ones, but if I will be staying in town for several weeks, let them roll. If I am a professional trucker, those better be brand new!
03-15-2009, 10:05 AM
#37
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 22
I am very suspicious of you anyways. You are NOT a 121 pilot but use words like "we will," what is your angle? Do you just like playing pilot on a airline pilot forum and then questioning our safety standards?
Maybe I should go to a forums for dentist and talk about things I know nothing about.
Maybe I should go to a forums for dentist and talk about things I know nothing about.
I am all for you guys getting a new contract, and I am all for you guys sticking it to management. I just think you guys need to be careful how you do it. Let the media get a hold of the fact that flights are being delayed, for job actions, while pilots are in negotiations, and flights with maintenance problems, that were once not such a big deal, are suddenly being delayed, and cancelled. The media will certainly spin that, and it most likely will not be in the pilots favor. "You mean, they were flying these planes, with the problems, before?" The media will not hesitate to put pilots in the spotlight, and not in such a good way.
Remeber that this is a public message board. Anybody can join. Anybody can read through the threads. Be careful what you say, and how you say it. Also, some of you need to not take these boards so seriously. As human beings, we are all going to have different opinions, and we are welcome to them. While I am being jumped on, it was a 121 pilots who first brought up that it isn't right to delay flights. I'd be willing to bet, he/she isn't the only one who believes that.
03-15-2009, 12:44 PM
#38
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
No angle, and I don't use words like "we will", implying that "I" am a 121 pilot. I use it referring to you all. Speaking in the third person, if that is the correct term. I am a pilot, by the way, just don't do it for a living.
I am all for you guys getting a new contract, and I am all for you guys sticking it to management. I just think you guys need to be careful how you do it. Let the media get a hold of the fact that flights are being delayed, for job actions, while pilots are in negotiations, and flights with maintenance problems, that were once not such a big deal, are suddenly being delayed, and cancelled. The media will certainly spin that, and it most likely will not be in the pilots favor. "You mean, they were flying these planes, with the problems, before?" The media will not hesitate to put pilots in the spotlight, and not in such a good way.
Remeber that this is a public message board. Anybody can join. Anybody can read through the threads. Be careful what you say, and how you say it. Also, some of you need to not take these boards so seriously. As human beings, we are all going to have different opinions, and we are welcome to them. While I am being jumped on, it was a 121 pilots who first brought up that it isn't right to delay flights. I'd be willing to bet, he/she isn't the only one who believes that.
I am all for you guys getting a new contract, and I am all for you guys sticking it to management. I just think you guys need to be careful how you do it. Let the media get a hold of the fact that flights are being delayed, for job actions, while pilots are in negotiations, and flights with maintenance problems, that were once not such a big deal, are suddenly being delayed, and cancelled. The media will certainly spin that, and it most likely will not be in the pilots favor. "You mean, they were flying these planes, with the problems, before?" The media will not hesitate to put pilots in the spotlight, and not in such a good way.
Remeber that this is a public message board. Anybody can join. Anybody can read through the threads. Be careful what you say, and how you say it. Also, some of you need to not take these boards so seriously. As human beings, we are all going to have different opinions, and we are welcome to them. While I am being jumped on, it was a 121 pilots who first brought up that it isn't right to delay flights. I'd be willing to bet, he/she isn't the only one who believes that.
2. Yes, the board is public but YOU need to keep in mind the following analogy.
Would you go to a public park, find a black bear's den, walk in, wake em up, and it expect to be a pleasant meeting?
This is a board where we AS AIRLINE PILOTS are discussing a contract negotiations process. Learn the RLA, read ALPA's history (Flying the Line v. I and II) and then let us know what we are doing so wrong. Until then you are swimming against the current.
03-16-2009, 07:00 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 862
Bottom line is:
If the pilots are unhappy, management couldn't care less.
If the pax are unhappy, management has to listen.
We are the face of the company, we have all of the control of the passengers comfort and overall experience. You would think a company in customer service would like to keep the people happy who give them a good name.
If the pilots are unhappy, management couldn't care less.
If the pax are unhappy, management has to listen.
We are the face of the company, we have all of the control of the passengers comfort and overall experience. You would think a company in customer service would like to keep the people happy who give them a good name.
03-16-2009, 07:39 AM
#40
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: EFIS COMP MON
Posts: 13
I'm happy with the union at 9E and I'm furious with the NMB under bush. The deck is already stacked in management's favor by the RLA and the Bush NMB took away labor's best and biggest leverage (a legal strike).
In that climate its no wonder we didn't get a good contract. ASA showed us how its done when the dice are loaded... nice job guys.
Now I'm hopeful that we'll see some progress because of Obama's appointee to the NMB. She was president of the flight attendant's union. When she's in I think we'll be released very quickly.
I'm ready to burn it down but i'll play by the rules with a reasonable person heading to the NMB.
In that climate its no wonder we didn't get a good contract. ASA showed us how its done when the dice are loaded... nice job guys.
Now I'm hopeful that we'll see some progress because of Obama's appointee to the NMB. She was president of the flight attendant's union. When she's in I think we'll be released very quickly.
I'm ready to burn it down but i'll play by the rules with a reasonable person heading to the NMB.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
