New Minimums For All
03-06-2009, 06:45 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: BEECH 1900 PIC
Posts: 117
Speaking of pencil whipping log books,
I might not get much honesty on this forum, but just how prevalent is the practice?
When I sit in a new hire class at a regional, how much of the experience is real?
I've been to two different airline interviews (hired into a pool for both) and it's been my experience that my logbook was barely looked at. Captain/HR giving the interview thumbs through it (seemingly) absent-mindedly while listening to my answers to technical questions or something. As best as i recall, I was never asked questions about my time and my logbook.
Discuss!
I might not get much honesty on this forum, but just how prevalent is the practice?
When I sit in a new hire class at a regional, how much of the experience is real?
I've been to two different airline interviews (hired into a pool for both) and it's been my experience that my logbook was barely looked at. Captain/HR giving the interview thumbs through it (seemingly) absent-mindedly while listening to my answers to technical questions or something. As best as i recall, I was never asked questions about my time and my logbook.
Discuss!
Let this be a warning to all you folks out there looking to beef up your multi time a bit. Cheaters never win! With the exception of professional athletes, and career politicians.
Personally, I don't know of any people who I used to work with, who live in TX, and fly for regionals that penciled in multi time, I swear!
On a serious note, I don't condone it at all. I got two young guys who have floated the idea to me, and I tell them they would be making a mistake. "Do you want that hanging on your conscience your whole career?" I tell them. Regardless, the temptation is strong when they see, I should say saw, fellow pilots whip the pencil and land regional jobs.
03-06-2009, 07:08 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
I was flying with a guy who does interviews. He said that he was thumbing through an applicats logbook and the guy had written in 8 hrs of banner towing on 9/11/01. He asked him about it and the guy said that "he had a long day that day." Needless to say that he wasn't hired.
I think there is a lot of time that is logged that should not be really considered. Situations where two friends fly together and both log PIC time. Situations where two guys rent a twin and an instructor sits in the back seat and all three log PIC-Multi time. Is the time log-able...according to the FAR's....probably. Is it really experience.....maybe, maybe not.
I think there is a lot of time that is logged that should not be really considered. Situations where two friends fly together and both log PIC time. Situations where two guys rent a twin and an instructor sits in the back seat and all three log PIC-Multi time. Is the time log-able...according to the FAR's....probably. Is it really experience.....maybe, maybe not.
03-06-2009, 07:11 AM
#63
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,773
You might have, but many regional pilots never had any PIC experience before getting into regionals... as those pilots gain flight time, they will still be way behind on learning how to be a PIC. I simply don't believe that the place to start learning the basics of being a PIC is with 50+ lives behind you.... hence the need to get some experience before getting hired.
03-06-2009, 07:15 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 168
I would show up at the interview with my mom's peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some kool-aid and I would write that down on my resume that I'll be bringing snacks and refreshments. Hows that? and if you have ever seen an airplane and if you are at the most half-past dead - your hired (we don't want dead guys smelling up the flight deck, it'll overpower my old spice that I spent waaaay too much money on.
03-06-2009, 07:22 AM
#65
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
You might have, but many regional pilots never had any PIC experience before getting into regionals... as those pilots gain flight time, they will still be way behind on learning how to be a PIC. I simply don't believe that the place to start learning the basics of being a PIC is with 50+ lives behind you.... hence the need to get some experience before getting hired.
Oh well at least it is kind of funny.
03-06-2009, 07:37 AM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 61
I don't think anyone is arguing with you that getting hired with low time can be a bad idea...the main debate is about reasonable minimums (ATP minimums seems to be a reasonable consensus)
COMPETITIVE MINIMUMS...that is an entirely different story...i.e. why Major airlines were hiring people right out of college a few years ago. Pilot jobs are a commodity...the more pilots looking for jobs, the higher the standards and less pay. As a shortage of pilots happens, lowers standards, and less pay. Go figure.
03-06-2009, 07:38 AM
#68
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
In the past
Speaking of pencil whipping log books,
I might not get much honesty on this forum, but just how prevalent is the practice?
When I sit in a new hire class at a regional, how much of the experience is real?
I've been to two different airline interviews (hired into a pool for both) and it's been my experience that my logbook was barely looked at. Captain/HR giving the interview thumbs through it (seemingly) absent-mindedly while listening to my answers to technical questions or something. As best as i recall, I was never asked questions about my time and my logbook.
Discuss!
I might not get much honesty on this forum, but just how prevalent is the practice?
When I sit in a new hire class at a regional, how much of the experience is real?
I've been to two different airline interviews (hired into a pool for both) and it's been my experience that my logbook was barely looked at. Captain/HR giving the interview thumbs through it (seemingly) absent-mindedly while listening to my answers to technical questions or something. As best as i recall, I was never asked questions about my time and my logbook.
Discuss!
I am sure that with the renewal of hard times that the pen will make a return.
Skyhigh
03-06-2009, 07:46 AM
#70
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Cheaters
Prevalent. Our chief pilot at the 135 op says he "sees it all the time". I say "How do you know?". He says "first five minutes of an eval flight, I can tell how much multi time they have."
Let this be a warning to all you folks out there looking to beef up your multi time a bit. Cheaters never win! With the exception of professional athletes, and career politicians.
Personally, I don't know of any people who I used to work with, who live in TX, and fly for regionals that penciled in multi time, I swear!
On a serious note, I don't condone it at all. I got two young guys who have floated the idea to me, and I tell them they would be making a mistake. "Do you want that hanging on your conscience your whole career?" I tell them. Regardless, the temptation is strong when they see, I should say saw, fellow pilots whip the pencil and land regional jobs.
Let this be a warning to all you folks out there looking to beef up your multi time a bit. Cheaters never win! With the exception of professional athletes, and career politicians.
Personally, I don't know of any people who I used to work with, who live in TX, and fly for regionals that penciled in multi time, I swear!
On a serious note, I don't condone it at all. I got two young guys who have floated the idea to me, and I tell them they would be making a mistake. "Do you want that hanging on your conscience your whole career?" I tell them. Regardless, the temptation is strong when they see, I should say saw, fellow pilots whip the pencil and land regional jobs.
I am not a supporter of cheating but it is not true that they do not get ahead. It all boils down to how badly do you want the job and how far are you willing to go to get it.
The guys who get ahead in aviation usually do not let much get in their way. Friends, family, and morals are all on the table as things to be traded away.
Skyhigh
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