Cruise

Thanks! I am sensible enough for a discussion and not the senseless squabbling that goes on around here, on occasion.

Actually, I'm with you on the 'no one bidding the Q' back when we were first taking delivery. That was our first opportunity for us to show unity regarding the pay issue. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Now, we're gonna have to get the improvements w/ a contract. Which, in my opinion, is fine.....'cause we're in dire need of some legally-binding work rules. No more changing policy on a whim or reaction. We need a voice and I think ALPA will provide that for us. BUT, BUT.....our ALPA will only be as strong as our pilot group makes it. We need good/ strong leadership from within and we will see positive results.

usmc-sgt

If no one would have transitioned to the Q I would not doubt for a second that Colgan would have hired 80 new first officers and been DELIGHTED to hire 80 year 1 pay street captains under the circumstances. Sort of like Lynx did.

I understand that Lynx is a TOTALLY different situation as they were a startup but the way Colgan treats it the Q400 is basically a startup and they would have been glad to bypass the entire already in place pilot group to get fresh and easily influenced pilots into it.

I can back what cruise has said one one major item in that the new hires were fed alot of rediculous things from management from day 1. We would have had quite a few no votes had there not been strong influence from the transitioning members who were on the OC.

DeadHead

Well hindsight is worth 20/20....I think that's how the saying goes at least.
No point in playing the blame game and trying fault others for circumstances playing out the way they did. Like our economy, we're in this mess together regardless of who helped get us here. Unless we start working together, in unity, we will continuously be chasing our own tails to solve our problems.

I couldn't agree more with your last statement, coming from Colgan, non-union, and going directly to an ALPA carrier was an "eye opener" to say the least. However, I do believe ALPA is only a tool, like a hammer or a gun, as a medium through which real positive change can come. But like any tool, it will only be as useful as the person using it. Hence the hammer/gun analogy, in the wrong hands these tools can be dangerous, but in the right hands of a skilled professional these tools will be very useful.

DeadHead

Well the garbage was always readily availae from management. Again I don't fault newhires or junior pilots for taking the job. It was just personally dissappointing to me hearing a majority of our pilots complain about the pay rates who I thought would have turned down the Q, but didn't.

Real change takes work, and it's evident you've got guys like cruise working hard for that change.

The Juice

As USMC-SGT said,

2 Words...Street Captains.

DeadHead

I know Colgan would have tried, that's for sure, but I can't believe they would have been able to entice enough street captains. I say "can't believe" in the sense that they would be taking pilots with no Q400 experience and placing them in the left seat. Essentially, they would have launched the Q400 program, which is the new bread & butter at Colgan, with street captains and newhires who have little experience in the aircraft and the company.

If that's not a recipe for disaster, then I don't know what is.
Again, I agree with you guys about not putting it over on Colgan Management to pull off a stunt like this.

Cruise

I think there were a whole bunch of Mesa-JFK based-Dash drivers (read: much more experience w/ Dash's than any current CJC pilot) just chomping at the bit to make the move. I could be wrong, as this is just speculation on my part......but I'm certain the seats could have been filled without a single CJC pilot signing up. And that would've been just fine by mgmt. They've already proved seniority means nothing to them by hiring 1900 and 340 Capt's off the street. Actually, I think we have about 3-4 street CA's on the Q, as well.


MGMT IS NOT OUR FRIEND! Despite whatever lies they'll tell you to your face. (This is probably true of 95% of airlines...not just CJC) The sooner people start realizing this, the sooner we can work to improve the profession as a whole. I mentioned this in a different thread, but I think it hold true here as well. Mgmt cares about two groups of people....and pilots aren't one of them. It's themselves, and their bonuses, and shareholders. That's it, to think otherwise would be lying to yourself.

edit: This isn't meant as an attack on DeadHead.....just adding my $.02 to the conversation