Pilotpip

This isn't a new phenomenon. Back in the '70s DC-10s were in a number of crashes and as a result an emergency AD was issued to ground them.

TWA had a fleet of L1011s and painted the aircraft model on all of them because people were concerned that they were getting on one of those dangerous three engined aircraft.

And for all the Tprop bashers: 250 below 10,000 is the same in both types. No reason to use jets on ORD-MKE, PIT-IAD etc.

The Juice

I agree about the first bunch signing up to fly the plane regardless of pay. However there are a bunch of guys who will not fly it for that pay. Now we know 15 more Q's are coming with the option for 30 more so Colgan will need a whole new crop of guys to fly them, pay will be an issue.

DeadHead

Unfortunately, I don't think Colgan will have a problem staffing those planes. Too many pilots out there looking for a job, especially struggling, starving CFIs.
I can't exactly fault the newhires for wanting to start their careers.
It's up to the senior guys who truly have the best interests of their pilots to step up and lead, not the gutless worms looking for 15 minutes of fame.

Colgan has alot of great, professional pilots at their company. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who refused to fly the Q400 and stayed on the Saab or Beech.
We need more people like that if we are going to even hope for better standards throughout the Airline Industry.

FlyJSH

Soooo, let me get this straight.

All those real jet pilots who turn their noses up at the thought of flying a lowly turboprop would be willing to sell out and fly one for sub standard wages? Shame on THEM!

And shame on Colgan for flying turboprops at all.

And shame on Bombardier for building those scary little planes.

And shame on ME for replying in my interview,"I want to work for Colgan for job security. I figure there will always be a place for turboprops."

DeadHead

Nope read both of my posts before replying.
I said I don't fault any newhire for starting off their careers. I think the bar needs to be raised from the top.

I think before an opportunity arises, pilots need to decide where that should be set. I'll respect any pilot who has made that decision. I won't respect the pilot who's willing to lower their own personal standards.

I came from Colgan and I'm thankful for the time I spent there and all the people I met there.

I'm really only referring to the select few who decided to step up and try to lead the pilot group. I think they could have set a better standard for themselves.

Dan64456

Doesn't the Q400 have a lower fatality rate than the CRJ anyway? People are so simple minded. Try working in IT and you will see evidence of this 100 fold.

Cruise

Not sure I'm following....... Are you saying those of us who actually stuck our necks out and tried to make this place better should've done something different? Also, would you describe 'setting a better standard?'

Not trying to flame you.....just trying to follow the ambiguity that is internet correspondence.

Thanks!

DeadHead

Basically refusing to fly the q400 would have set the standard. I think the Pilot Group missed a golden opportunity to show management that the pilots weren't going to starstruck by newer, bigger aircraft. I'm not a huge union guy, but ALPA was overdue at Colgan.

I think getting the union drive going sent a message, but having the organizing committee guys not sign up to fly the Q400 would of set a standard and set the bar and I believe that would of sent an even stronger message to the pilot group as well as management.

I'm sure there are many who disagree with me, but I'm a true believer of leading by example. Eagerness to sign up to fly the Q400 by union organizing committee members, I feel was counterproductive to a union's cause. I truly believe the organizing committee guys should condemned the pay rates and refused to fly it from day one.

I knew most of those guys and, all in all, they are decent guys. Personally, I just would have liked to of seen more pilot unity.

Cruise

Interesting, thanks for getting back to me.

While I agree w/ you about the poor payrates on the Q, having members of the organizing committee flying the Q was critical. I waited to make the transition until my base was being dismantled, because I am opposed to the pay. Also, I was a member of the OC prior to transitioning....and am now a member of the MEC/LEC. So, I had the opportunity to assist in organizing on the Saab side of the house....and the Q. Double trouble for mgmt.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course; but, I've done more than my fair share trying to improve things around here...as have the other members of the OC, MEC/LEC's. In my opinion (since I'm still here and you're not....congrats on your escape, btw ), having OC members flying the Q provided a voice of reality to many of the brand new FO's. Keep in mind, mgmt was pumping these people full of all sorts of BS in an effort to prevent us from organizing. Instead, the few OC guys here, were able to debunk the BS and as a result, we have a very strong group on the Q.

Rest assured, things will change around here....payrates included. Better to lead the group from the front, than wait and make the move after things improve! Slogging it out in the gutters, as it were.

DeadHead

Well you seem sensible enough to listen and not jump right to the defensive. I think I only had a few issues with a few specific OC members and not the group.

I just would have loved to see no one sign up for the Q, just to see how management would have reacted. I think it would be a great social experiment, and I wonder if it would have equated to the management reoffering a new pay rate.

I may not be at Colgan anymore, buy I truly want what's best for the pilots there. Hopefully ALPA will be able to deliver that good.