Pinnacle Contract
02-23-2009, 12:35 PM
#4
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
I won't talk about negotiations- this is a public board, but there are more mediated negotiations expected. I have heard different dates from the best source on the matter but the dates were tentative. Those who look on here and are 9E pilots should rely on a date in the payday hotline or an email from the union directly. These dates are sent out as soon as they are finalized to the pilot group.
As far as being released- I cannot personally see this happening before Easter at the VERY earliest. Keep in mind that we are all still awaiting Obama's selection for the 3rd member of the NMB. The NMB will then review the case, talk with the mediator, and make a move after/if an impasse is reached. This is still a ways off but is the "leaking nuke in the corner" as one of the negotiators likes to describe it.
Mediated negotiations are our best hopes overall. It will help for their to be a labor friendly background politically for the pilots, mgmt has been riding the management friendly politics to keep us pinned down (politically). Whenever a company deals with a strike neither side wins. The company loses money and future flying will be in jeopardy with a track record of the pilot group striking. The pilots also lose some footing because of the overall situation.
For 9E things are beginning to look up for our hopes for a contract in general terms. We operate on a cost plus contract with daddy DL (we send all expenses- including pilot labor costs) on to Delta. The political landscape is changing to being labor friendly, and the company is running out of mediated sessions to drag feet with questions and wording discussions. You can walk a marathon and still reach the same end- it just takes longer.
The political landscape among the pilot group is growing hot- we now have in excess of 30 CA's who are now back in the FO seat and most pilot's schedules are filled up from the original bid awards. Open time, sick calls, and IROPs will need to be covered by reserves- which are fewer with even more block hours than planned. It even appears that many on the company board are finally advocating trying to pick up trips from pilots trying to GET RID OF flying rather than shopping open time and helping the company. Of course this is not an ALPA sponsored thing, but a professional courtesy from the group of 99%.
And yes, Mgmt's motto is "Simply The Best" while pilots keep is simple with "STFD".
As far as being released- I cannot personally see this happening before Easter at the VERY earliest. Keep in mind that we are all still awaiting Obama's selection for the 3rd member of the NMB. The NMB will then review the case, talk with the mediator, and make a move after/if an impasse is reached. This is still a ways off but is the "leaking nuke in the corner" as one of the negotiators likes to describe it.
Mediated negotiations are our best hopes overall. It will help for their to be a labor friendly background politically for the pilots, mgmt has been riding the management friendly politics to keep us pinned down (politically). Whenever a company deals with a strike neither side wins. The company loses money and future flying will be in jeopardy with a track record of the pilot group striking. The pilots also lose some footing because of the overall situation.
For 9E things are beginning to look up for our hopes for a contract in general terms. We operate on a cost plus contract with daddy DL (we send all expenses- including pilot labor costs) on to Delta. The political landscape is changing to being labor friendly, and the company is running out of mediated sessions to drag feet with questions and wording discussions. You can walk a marathon and still reach the same end- it just takes longer.
The political landscape among the pilot group is growing hot- we now have in excess of 30 CA's who are now back in the FO seat and most pilot's schedules are filled up from the original bid awards. Open time, sick calls, and IROPs will need to be covered by reserves- which are fewer with even more block hours than planned. It even appears that many on the company board are finally advocating trying to pick up trips from pilots trying to GET RID OF flying rather than shopping open time and helping the company. Of course this is not an ALPA sponsored thing, but a professional courtesy from the group of 99%.
And yes, Mgmt's motto is "Simply The Best" while pilots keep is simple with "STFD".
02-23-2009, 01:08 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
*rumor alert*
I "heard" that the company and the union agreed to a proffer of arbitration on pay. supposedly scope and pbs are done and pay is the only thing left. once they realized they would never agree to the terms they put in for arbitration, just like our 900 rates. any truth to this rumor? i can see why we would do this, but i also think it carries a great risk. we have held out for nearly 4 years on a good contract so why would we put it in an arbitrators hands? i mean if we held out all the way to the strike i am sure we would get a better deal than what the mediator is going to give us. just playing devils advocate on this and yes it is just a rumor since i have not heard this from any official sources.
I "heard" that the company and the union agreed to a proffer of arbitration on pay. supposedly scope and pbs are done and pay is the only thing left. once they realized they would never agree to the terms they put in for arbitration, just like our 900 rates. any truth to this rumor? i can see why we would do this, but i also think it carries a great risk. we have held out for nearly 4 years on a good contract so why would we put it in an arbitrators hands? i mean if we held out all the way to the strike i am sure we would get a better deal than what the mediator is going to give us. just playing devils advocate on this and yes it is just a rumor since i have not heard this from any official sources.
02-23-2009, 01:43 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
*rumor alert*
I "heard" that the company and the union agreed to a proffer of arbitration on pay. supposedly scope and pbs are done and pay is the only thing left. once they realized they would never agree to the terms they put in for arbitration, just like our 900 rates. any truth to this rumor? i can see why we would do this, but i also think it carries a great risk. we have held out for nearly 4 years on a good contract so why would we put it in an arbitrators hands? i mean if we held out all the way to the strike i am sure we would get a better deal than what the mediator is going to give us. just playing devils advocate on this and yes it is just a rumor since i have not heard this from any official sources.
I "heard" that the company and the union agreed to a proffer of arbitration on pay. supposedly scope and pbs are done and pay is the only thing left. once they realized they would never agree to the terms they put in for arbitration, just like our 900 rates. any truth to this rumor? i can see why we would do this, but i also think it carries a great risk. we have held out for nearly 4 years on a good contract so why would we put it in an arbitrators hands? i mean if we held out all the way to the strike i am sure we would get a better deal than what the mediator is going to give us. just playing devils advocate on this and yes it is just a rumor since i have not heard this from any official sources.
Can't wait for Obama's appointment!!! Theoretically we should be their first priority since we've been amendable longer than any other pilot group currently in negotiations, but of course we're small change compared to some of the groups with issues in the pipeline...I'm crossing my fingers for something by May at the earliest and Nov/Dec at the latest...then again I've learned not to get my hopes up!!!
02-23-2009, 02:36 PM
#7
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
Let me put it this way..... I have been dealing with union stuff for the last few days on numerous issues and have heard NOTHING to make this rumor reality. From what I have been TOLD (as of last week from the source himself), they are trying to hammer down firm dates with the mediator in the next few weeks and there are 8 open sections that are the "meat and potatoes" (money) left to hash out. The PBS and Scope has been discussed but there is no TA on either section- that has NOT changed in status since the last all pilot call. Keep in mind that all negotiations are now a "big deal" with council present and all so everyone would be aware of talks- mediated or non-mediated. IF there is/was/has been an agreement the pilot group would be the first to hear. It wouldn't be something coming up as a rumor on a public board. That being said I have been wrong many times before.....
I once thought I was right, but my wife told me I was mistaken....
I once thought I was right, but my wife told me I was mistaken....
02-23-2009, 06:14 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
Even though the 30 displaced CAs are transitioning to FO March 2nd, there are still 1200+ hours of open time for FOs system-wide for March...1500+ for CA's...if I were a captain I would not be making any plans for my off days next month...
02-23-2009, 06:53 PM
#9
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
NO. I would know my contract. Specifically LOA's pertaining to Junior assignments and extensions. Know your rights and know what to use and when- look at your schedule ahead of time to figure out when they may try and "get" you. The group of schedulers we have will do anything they can to try and bully you into doing things against the contract to get a flight out. If you are legal they don't care about a "contract". Legal to them is no red on the schedule- nothing more, I can tell you multiple times where I have had to explain to scheduling why I am not legal when the color wasn't red. Stay legal, stay safe, and utilize your 10 year old contract- it may $uck but it does protect you.
For those who won't pull out a contract.....These are the "cliffnotes" with references for your "discussions" in the month of March with scheduling.....
REF: LOA 03-01
The company can JA 3 times in a given month, 12 times in a given year. JA's beyond 72 hours are from open time and are assigned in seniority order. The company is supposed to first "offer" additional flying at premium pay in seniority order and "assign" in inverse order (bottom-up). A JA cannot be refused, but within 72 hours can be told when the pilot will be available. Ex. You are stupid and drinking on an off day and answer a call from scheduling- you are JM'd. You are not refusing an assignment, but you tell them you are drinking and cannot show for 12 hours. If they want to delay the flight it's up to them but you did not refuse. Beyond 72 hours you are expected to make the proper arrangements to make the flight as scheduled. Word to the wise: DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE ON A DAY OFF! DON'T CHECK CREWTRAC WHEN SHED LEAVES YOU A MESSAGE OF "CHANGES" TO YOUR SCHEDULE UNTIL YOU ARE DUE FOR DUTY!
REF: LOA 05-03
A LINE HOLDER cannot be extended into an overnight. You can only be extended twice (2X) a month or nine (9x) in 12 months. A pilot may refuse 1 extension per month.
ANY EXTENSION OR JA that brings a pilot below 10 days off in a month is entitled to comp days. REF: LOA 05-01
WE ARE NO LONGER HONORING OUT OF DOMICILE RESERVE. REF: LOA 05-02
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
