Any furloughed Gulfstream Airlines Pilots?
02-25-2009, 05:32 PM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 187
it might take a few times
02-26-2009, 07:36 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Ex Bottom Feeder
Posts: 186
Gulfstream pilots may have "paid" for their jobs but how is that different from a pilot taking a job flying for $20 an hour or paying ATP 75 grand to play pilot? Or paying for a type rating for a job? That right there is what is dragging down the industry not mainline pilots giving up scope with a gun pointed at their head, bottom line, mainline pilots do not care how much RJ pilots are paid, period, they are looking out for #1
02-26-2009, 10:02 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 135 FO
Posts: 148
Oh don't get us wrong... I understand the words. What I don't understand is how you can justify having 30% of your pilot group paying to be there. If you didn't have the PFJ deal going, then you could have 30% more real airline pilots employed.
02-26-2009, 10:05 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 770
Gulfstream pilots may have "paid" for their jobs but how is that different from a pilot taking a job flying for $20 an hour or paying ATP 75 grand to play pilot? Or paying for a type rating for a job? That right there is what is dragging down the industry not mainline pilots giving up scope with a gun pointed at their head, bottom line, mainline pilots do not care how much RJ pilots are paid, period, they are looking out for #1
If you want to be an attorney, you go to law school. Whether you go to a big name expensive ivy league school and spend a ton of money, or city college night school and spend a little.. you still have to pass the bar exam.
We as pilots all need to have the same basic TRAINING, how much you spend on that training is up to you. Not everyone who goes to Harvard Law becomes a successful attorney, and not everyone who goes to Embry Riddle becomes a 747 captain.
EXPERIENCE is a different story... if a lawfirm advertised that if you paid them, they would allow you to go to trial for them on 10 cases to "get experience" so you can apply at a different firm.. they would be a laughing stock.
There is simply no substitute for experience, like college athletes who go to the pro's early and falter, or troops sent into battle poorly trained. My years spent in Management (non-airline) taught me that dollars spent on training are one of the best investments you can make in a company. Passing that expense on to employees will usually only attract those who can't find work elsewhere.
Someone brought up Southwest as an example of PFT becuase they require a 737 type. While this is true, they also require EXPERIENCE... several thousand hours of turbine flying, preferably 121 or military, preferably PIC. Initially they required the type to attract pilots with prior experience in the 737. Now if meet their experience and interview well, they will hire you on the condition that you get typed, if you have built considerable experience in another jet.
They do not purport themselves to be a shortcut to 737 experience so that you can find a job elsewhere, and they do not furlough current pilots to make room for starry-eyed noobies.
I was furloughed from a LCC, and had initially considered going to work for a regional again. The main deterrent was not the airframe or the schedule or the loss of swagger for slinging gear on a smaller plane.. nope, the mian reason is that I consider myself worth more than Regional FO wages.
If they want my experience, it's worth more than 20 bucks an hour.
02-26-2009, 10:06 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 187
I never thought of that....real pilots...man would that be a treat
02-26-2009, 10:34 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 867
Well, since you asked, there is a big difference... I'll explain with a metaphor..
If you want to be an attorney, you go to law school. Whether you go to a big name expensive ivy league school and spend a ton of money, or city college night school and spend a little.. you still have to pass the bar exam.
We as pilots all need to have the same basic TRAINING, how much you spend on that training is up to you. Not everyone who goes to Harvard Law becomes a successful attorney, and not everyone who goes to Embry Riddle becomes a 747 captain.
EXPERIENCE is a different story... if a lawfirm advertised that if you paid them, they would allow you to go to trial for them on 10 cases to "get experience" so you can apply at a different firm.. they would be a laughing stock.
There is simply no substitute for experience, like college athletes who go to the pro's early and falter, or troops sent into battle poorly trained. My years spent in Management (non-airline) taught me that dollars spent on training are one of the best investments you can make in a company. Passing that expense on to employees will usually only attract those who can't find work elsewhere.
Someone brought up Southwest as an example of PFT becuase they require a 737 type. While this is true, they also require EXPERIENCE... several thousand hours of turbine flying, preferably 121 or military, preferably PIC. Initially they required the type to attract pilots with prior experience in the 737. Now if meet their experience and interview well, they will hire you on the condition that you get typed, if you have built considerable experience in another jet.
They do not purport themselves to be a shortcut to 737 experience so that you can find a job elsewhere, and they do not furlough current pilots to make room for starry-eyed noobies.
I was furloughed from a LCC, and had initially considered going to work for a regional again. The main deterrent was not the airframe or the schedule or the loss of swagger for slinging gear on a smaller plane.. nope, the mian reason is that I consider myself worth more than Regional FO wages.
If they want my experience, it's worth more than 20 bucks an hour.
If you want to be an attorney, you go to law school. Whether you go to a big name expensive ivy league school and spend a ton of money, or city college night school and spend a little.. you still have to pass the bar exam.
We as pilots all need to have the same basic TRAINING, how much you spend on that training is up to you. Not everyone who goes to Harvard Law becomes a successful attorney, and not everyone who goes to Embry Riddle becomes a 747 captain.
EXPERIENCE is a different story... if a lawfirm advertised that if you paid them, they would allow you to go to trial for them on 10 cases to "get experience" so you can apply at a different firm.. they would be a laughing stock.
There is simply no substitute for experience, like college athletes who go to the pro's early and falter, or troops sent into battle poorly trained. My years spent in Management (non-airline) taught me that dollars spent on training are one of the best investments you can make in a company. Passing that expense on to employees will usually only attract those who can't find work elsewhere.
Someone brought up Southwest as an example of PFT becuase they require a 737 type. While this is true, they also require EXPERIENCE... several thousand hours of turbine flying, preferably 121 or military, preferably PIC. Initially they required the type to attract pilots with prior experience in the 737. Now if meet their experience and interview well, they will hire you on the condition that you get typed, if you have built considerable experience in another jet.
They do not purport themselves to be a shortcut to 737 experience so that you can find a job elsewhere, and they do not furlough current pilots to make room for starry-eyed noobies.
I was furloughed from a LCC, and had initially considered going to work for a regional again. The main deterrent was not the airframe or the schedule or the loss of swagger for slinging gear on a smaller plane.. nope, the mian reason is that I consider myself worth more than Regional FO wages.
If they want my experience, it's worth more than 20 bucks an hour.
I thought the furloughees were the GTA "grads" who had completed the 250-hr internship and got "hired." Otherwise, they are just students who got bumped from the training schedule.
Is this karma?
02-26-2009, 10:42 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Ex Bottom Feeder
Posts: 186
RemoveB4flght- thanks for a great answer.
02-26-2009, 11:00 AM
#140
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Ok, I need some advice/opinions about what route someone with qualifications like mine should take. I have my eyes on GAT for one simple reason: it is the only chance I have in this market to get 121 experience couple with twin turboprop time. So before you shoot me down, please read and put yourself in my shoes so I, and maybe someone else like me can find a way to move up a little faster.
So, at this point in time I have my commercial, CFI, CFII, A&P and FE 727. Total time not very high but still above 1000hrs thanks to my CFI/II. I did work as a mechanic at MIA for 5 years hoping to eventually get to the cockpit by having one foot in the door. It almost worked out since that allowed me to get my FE but the company I worked for sold all their 727 so I said good by to FE without logging much. At this point I’m at a stand still with only 16 hrs of Beech Baron that I got 15 years ago when I did my Commercial ME so what’s next? I can’t get a job anywhere with 16 hours of MEL and if I go spend money on a MEI license, there is a good chance in this market that the very few students who can actually pay mucho $$$ on a commercial multi will be stalked by a flock of MEI’s (most with more MEL time that I do). So, yes, I’m looking towards GAT because I don’t see any other route to log decent hours. Does that make me a wannabe pilot who is using a shortcut to steal jobs from other pilots? Didn’t I try hard enough to make it without this last resort? I don’t think so. I’m almost forty and if I end up getting a job somewhere after GTA (if I actually go there), I will be patiently waiting for some fellow pilot to throw in my face that, because I went to GTA, I don’t deserve a seat in that cockpit. If any of the GTA bashers out there have any constructive advice to give me please do so and I’ll be glad to follow them if they make more sense than spending 30K. This is no lottery money and I would rather not spend it but I have been in the aviation field for almost 17 years and I think I tried hard enough and long enough for anyone to tell me that I’m not entitled to a “short cut” at this point in my life if it makes sense. Thanks again for any good advice.
So, at this point in time I have my commercial, CFI, CFII, A&P and FE 727. Total time not very high but still above 1000hrs thanks to my CFI/II. I did work as a mechanic at MIA for 5 years hoping to eventually get to the cockpit by having one foot in the door. It almost worked out since that allowed me to get my FE but the company I worked for sold all their 727 so I said good by to FE without logging much. At this point I’m at a stand still with only 16 hrs of Beech Baron that I got 15 years ago when I did my Commercial ME so what’s next? I can’t get a job anywhere with 16 hours of MEL and if I go spend money on a MEI license, there is a good chance in this market that the very few students who can actually pay mucho $$$ on a commercial multi will be stalked by a flock of MEI’s (most with more MEL time that I do). So, yes, I’m looking towards GAT because I don’t see any other route to log decent hours. Does that make me a wannabe pilot who is using a shortcut to steal jobs from other pilots? Didn’t I try hard enough to make it without this last resort? I don’t think so. I’m almost forty and if I end up getting a job somewhere after GTA (if I actually go there), I will be patiently waiting for some fellow pilot to throw in my face that, because I went to GTA, I don’t deserve a seat in that cockpit. If any of the GTA bashers out there have any constructive advice to give me please do so and I’ll be glad to follow them if they make more sense than spending 30K. This is no lottery money and I would rather not spend it but I have been in the aviation field for almost 17 years and I think I tried hard enough and long enough for anyone to tell me that I’m not entitled to a “short cut” at this point in my life if it makes sense. Thanks again for any good advice.
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