Any furloughed Gulfstream Airlines Pilots?
02-25-2009, 11:34 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
lets look at lowering the profession. A CFI was one of the reasons I chose to go the PFT route, at least "they" were straight up about what they do.
When I took my first lesson the CFI, seemed like a nice guy, I thought hed be good to learn from. First lesson went good , second lesson went good, showed up for number three and no CFI. Asked the scheduler, they hadn't heard from him. Waited, and finally went home. Two days later he calls me apoligizing and tells me he had a family emergancy, he had to go to AZ. I said no problem, he tells me to go ahead and schedule for next week. I call the school 2 days later to schedule a flight with him, and they tell me he called in a quit his cfi gig. seems he went to az to interview with Mesa and he got hired, at least he could have been honest with me. In his defense when he did finally call again, he recomended another instructor who turned out to be great. After telling him about the situation, he mentioned that that happens alot. By the way he is a capt elsewhere also. At that point I realized, that When I become a CFI, it will be to give somthing back like him, after ive been at an airline, not before just to ride in the right seat logging time off a student. To the good CFIs that care,and they are out there, I salute you, but on that day I realized there should be more options than to force someone to CFI to get to the airlines, we dont need CFIs that are there for the wrong reason. I looked and found GIA, the rest is history after doing research, I made my decision.
When I took my first lesson the CFI, seemed like a nice guy, I thought hed be good to learn from. First lesson went good , second lesson went good, showed up for number three and no CFI. Asked the scheduler, they hadn't heard from him. Waited, and finally went home. Two days later he calls me apoligizing and tells me he had a family emergancy, he had to go to AZ. I said no problem, he tells me to go ahead and schedule for next week. I call the school 2 days later to schedule a flight with him, and they tell me he called in a quit his cfi gig. seems he went to az to interview with Mesa and he got hired, at least he could have been honest with me. In his defense when he did finally call again, he recomended another instructor who turned out to be great. After telling him about the situation, he mentioned that that happens alot. By the way he is a capt elsewhere also. At that point I realized, that When I become a CFI, it will be to give somthing back like him, after ive been at an airline, not before just to ride in the right seat logging time off a student. To the good CFIs that care,and they are out there, I salute you, but on that day I realized there should be more options than to force someone to CFI to get to the airlines, we dont need CFIs that are there for the wrong reason. I looked and found GIA, the rest is history after doing research, I made my decision.
He/she does NOT represent what flight instructing is all about.
I instructed for 2 ½ years and I absolutely loved it. I only had one student fail her checkride (PVT – landing) and I took it personally because ultimately it was my responsibility. She’s now a pretty senior FO at SWA so she moved on just fine…
Yes, I know some people instructed just to build their flight time, and trust me I WAS building my time. However, I think the vast majority actually enjoy it.
It's an incredible feeling to watch your student solo for the first time, or to get a phone call from another student who just called you from his first cross country destination just to tell you he/she made it there all right. Or when the FAA examiner after signing off yet another one of your students turns around to congratulate you on a job well done and says "I always like your students because they seem to be very confident and know what they're doing..."
I've now been at 4 different airlines, have worked as a check airman and an IOE captain, have flown turboprops and 4 different jet aircraft yet I still think my CFI check ride was the hardest check ride I'd ever had...
Working as a CFI was also the most satisfying part of my flight experience (well, besides flying gliders that is...
).You seem to be a bright guy and I strongly suggest that no matter where the future takes you - consider taking your CFI/II and MEI and maybe do some part time instructing if you’re too busy to do it full-time. You've already seen what not to do when it comes to instructing and that will make you a great instructor....
As far as posting here – look many of us will never agree with your thoughts on Gulfstream style training/internships, etc…
However, we can still keep it civilized; if you see a post that you think is out-of-line simply ignore it and focus on the ones you can reason with…
Ultimately, we know we will not be able to change your mind (and vice versa) and frankly it’s too late but hopefully newer pilots will learn from our discourse…
02-25-2009, 11:40 AM
#122
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
TPROP4ever, you sound like a SCAB trying to justify crossing the line.............its wrong. It doesn't matter what you say, or how you try and justify it, it is wrong. If you think those that Instructed for 1,500 very scary hours, or those who flew night single pilot IMC with cargo in the back are going to sympathize with you, its just not going to happen.
02-25-2009, 11:46 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Here is an interesting tidbit of information that one can deduct is either pure coincidence or a by product of a myriad of other factors dealing with experience, situational awareness et al. BTW I am not attempting to speculate as to the cause of the crash of 3407.
...
Did you know that the pilot in command of all major accidents/incidents at Pinnacle involving the damage to an airframe/ fatality of lives; that all of them came from GIA. Yep everyone.
BTW other than 3701 and 3407 there was another incident that was kept hush hush at MKE. That pilot also came from GIA.
...
Did you know that the pilot in command of all major accidents/incidents at Pinnacle involving the damage to an airframe/ fatality of lives; that all of them came from GIA. Yep everyone.
BTW other than 3701 and 3407 there was another incident that was kept hush hush at MKE. That pilot also came from GIA.
Let those people rest in peace - they cannot defend themselves against your speculations; in my opinion it is not an honorable thing to do....
I still disagree with the type of training programs his former flight school/employer offers but that's a different story...
02-25-2009, 12:05 PM
#124
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3
[quote=deadstick35;566923]If there are enough, interns, they won't need to recall any. TPROP, pat might prevent you from going back to GIA.
Just to clarify.
In the event of a furlough, GTA students will be limited to no more then 30% of total scheduled First Officer flight time as determined by each monthly bid packet.
Just to clarify.
In the event of a furlough, GTA students will be limited to no more then 30% of total scheduled First Officer flight time as determined by each monthly bid packet.
02-25-2009, 01:08 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
TPROP4ever, you sound like a SCAB trying to justify crossing the line.............its wrong. It doesn't matter what you say, or how you try and justify it, it is wrong. If you think those that Instructed for 1,500 very scary hours, or those who flew night single pilot IMC with cargo in the back are going to sympathize with you, its just not going to happen.
I'd reckon that's a little uncalled for. If TPROP worked for your airline, when your airline was on strike, and still crossed a picket line, then he'd be a scab.
I've got one question- was there this much hate for each other back in what was it- 2006 when you basically just had to have a fresh commercial to get into the right seat of something that burned jet fuel?
Keep some perspective, there's plenty of major guys who would view ALL regional pilots as "scabs". Is that right- you tell me. I can guaran-dang-tee you not all of those sitting in judgement of others have flown freight, or 135, or banner-towed, or instructed, or whatever before getting a 121 job.
The industry has changed. Ab-initio, MPL, direct-entry, links between colleges and airlines, you name it. Starting like 20+ years ago.
As for Gulfstream, and others doing that kind of deal-
I don't agree with people paying ANY money to sit in the right seat of an airplane carrying paying passengers or freight, but really, what's the difference between that and going to Ab-initio, etc, to get into that hiring that took place a couple of years ago for people who never instructed or flew freight, etc?
If you want to go back far enough, you could criticize everyone around you who paid for any flight training beyond their commercial. The people who paid to take part in colleges linked to airlines- are they scabs because they paid several thousand dollars to have an advantage over someone out there flying a Beech 18 who had to go through the hiring process without that little extra going for them? Is someone a scab because they paid to become a CFI and then instruct with the goal of furthering their career? Is someone a scab because they paid to get that oh so holy multi-turbine time?
Why do this to each other? Will going after these fellow human beings like this really help the profession when it's screwed up for everyone in the industry?
02-25-2009, 01:10 PM
#126
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Aargh...
I'd reckon that's a little uncalled for. If TPROP worked for your airline, when your airline was on strike, and still crossed a picket line, then he'd be a scab.
I've got one question- was there this much hate for each other back in what was it- 2006 when you basically just had to have a fresh commercial to get into the right seat of something that burned jet fuel?
Keep some perspective, there's plenty of major guys who would view ALL regional pilots as "scabs". Is that right- you tell me. I can guaran-dang-tee you not all of those sitting in judgement of others have flown freight, or 135, or banner-towed, or instructed, or whatever before getting a 121 job.
The industry has changed. Ab-initio, MPL, direct-entry, links between colleges and airlines, you name it. Starting like 20+ years ago.
As for Gulfstream, and others doing that kind of deal-
I don't agree with people paying ANY money to sit in the right seat of an airplane carrying paying passengers or freight, but really, what's the difference between that and going to Ab-initio, etc, to get into that hiring that took place a couple of years ago for people who never instructed or flew freight, etc?
If you want to go back far enough, you could criticize everyone around you who paid for any flight training beyond their commercial. The people who paid to take part in colleges linked to airlines- are they scabs because they paid several thousand dollars to have an advantage over someone out there flying a Beech 18 who had to go through the hiring process without that little extra going for them? Is someone a scab because they paid to become a CFI and then instruct with the goal of furthering their career? Is someone a scab because they paid to get that oh so holy multi-turbine time?
Why do this to each other? Will going after these fellow human beings like this really help the profession when it's screwed up for everyone in the industry?
I'd reckon that's a little uncalled for. If TPROP worked for your airline, when your airline was on strike, and still crossed a picket line, then he'd be a scab.
I've got one question- was there this much hate for each other back in what was it- 2006 when you basically just had to have a fresh commercial to get into the right seat of something that burned jet fuel?
Keep some perspective, there's plenty of major guys who would view ALL regional pilots as "scabs". Is that right- you tell me. I can guaran-dang-tee you not all of those sitting in judgement of others have flown freight, or 135, or banner-towed, or instructed, or whatever before getting a 121 job.
The industry has changed. Ab-initio, MPL, direct-entry, links between colleges and airlines, you name it. Starting like 20+ years ago.
As for Gulfstream, and others doing that kind of deal-
I don't agree with people paying ANY money to sit in the right seat of an airplane carrying paying passengers or freight, but really, what's the difference between that and going to Ab-initio, etc, to get into that hiring that took place a couple of years ago for people who never instructed or flew freight, etc?
If you want to go back far enough, you could criticize everyone around you who paid for any flight training beyond their commercial. The people who paid to take part in colleges linked to airlines- are they scabs because they paid several thousand dollars to have an advantage over someone out there flying a Beech 18 who had to go through the hiring process without that little extra going for them? Is someone a scab because they paid to become a CFI and then instruct with the goal of furthering their career? Is someone a scab because they paid to get that oh so holy multi-turbine time?
Why do this to each other? Will going after these fellow human beings like this really help the profession when it's screwed up for everyone in the industry?
I see what you are saying, and you make some good points, but I did not call him a SCAB per se
02-25-2009, 01:58 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 867
Just because I'm curious and don't know when to quit, how does this program work with reserves. Are interns the reserves, or are "hired" f/o's sitting reserve?
02-25-2009, 05:14 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 187
GTA pilots are given a seniority number at the start of class...oldest person in class is senior, youngest is junior. Whether they hold a line, or reserve depends on seniority. At the end of the 250 hours they are hired by GIA. At the moment that means they become furloughed. The contract says that if GIA furloughs, GTA pilots will be limited to 30% of the total flying. Gulfstream has sold/returned 1/3 of its fleet in the last year. Summer time in Florida is not easy flying, not at all...and neither is flying in the snow/ice and mountains, which we also do.
02-25-2009, 05:25 PM
#129
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
GTA pilots are given a seniority number at the start of class...oldest person in class is senior, youngest is junior. Whether they hold a line, or reserve depends on seniority. At the end of the 250 hours they are hired by GIA. At the moment that means they become furloughed. The contract says that if GIA furloughs, GTA pilots will be limited to 30% of the total flying. Gulfstream has sold/returned 1/3 of its fleet in the last year. Summer time in Florida is not easy flying, not at all...and neither is flying in the snow/ice and mountains, which we also do.
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