captain152

If this was a tail stall, which is sounds like the perfect recipe for unfortunately, there would be almost no way to recover at the altitude they were. Especially if they already had a good amount of icing on the wings. The recovery procedures for a tail stall if I remember correctly are to pitch up and add power, NOT pitch down to break the stall. However, in doing this, there may have been enough ice on the wings to where when the crew pitched up, it stalled the aircraft into an unrecoverable nose dive and slight roll. This event, whatever it was, since it's only speculation at this point, was truly horrible and catastrophic.

This thread was not created for the sole purpose to mourn the loss of those involved with 3407. I agree that we should keep this professional and we are all trying to learn about these situation to become better pilots. Let's keep this a healthy and fruitful thread

Thoughts and prayers to those that were affected

screwdriver

The Q400 has artificial feel associated with the elevator through the hydraulic system. With that being said the initial indications of this type of scenario would not be easily identified. Also the stick shaker os associated with aoa so you wouldn't get that either. This info on tail stalls is good info to get out there and I'm glad that so many pilots are reviewing this info. Fly safe, be diligent, good briefings, good crm. We lost three good pilots and we know they were doing everything they could till the end. Peace and prayers to all the families and friends.

JoeyMeatballs

Captain152 for president, couldn't have said it any better myself

pxm21

deleted question answered

captain152

Thanks Saab

just trying to be respectful and honor the memory of my good friend while hopefully educating others on the danger of tail stalls at such a low altitude

DublinFlyer

Great video!!! It answered a lot of my questions, and I think it's a must for everyone, especially new pilots to see!!!! thank you so much.

captain152

Very good video. We watch it every year during recurrent ground. Very good info on recovery and signs of tail stalls.

Pontius Pilot

I highly encourage everybody to take the online NASA course on Icing.
It covers more about icing than I ever wanted to know - including tail stalls and recovery techniques and "aileron snatch" (the initial cause of the upset of the American Eagle ATR Roselawn crash). It is an extensive and exhaustive course and it is how I've learned so much about adverse icing conditions - including avoidance, escape, and upset recoveries. There is a lot to icing that we don't consider and a lot that isn't covered in ground school.

The course will take a considerable investment of your time, but I think it is well worth it.

Aircraft Icing Training - A Pilot's Guide to In-Flight Icing

From the website intro page:
Who should take this course?
Every pilot who could encounter in-flight icing.

What is covered in this course?
With an operational focus, this course provides tools pilots can use to deal with in-flight icing. Emphasis is on avoidance, detection and exit, as well as the effects of ice accretion on performance and handling and the particular hazard of Supercooled Large Droplet (SLD) icing.

How long will it take?
That depends on you. This course is fairly comprehensive; you may choose to go through the entire course from beginning to end, including exploring the accident links, pilot testimonials and other related information in roughly 4-6 hours. The total time will be much shorter if you skip certain sections or jump directly to sections that interest you most.

Aircraft Icing Training - A Pilot's Guide to In-Flight Icing

CE750Pilot

In addition to the Tailplane Icing video, the same site has a very informative video titled "Icing for the Regional Pilot" -

Icing For Regional Pilots

Tom

DublinFlyer

Both videos are great, I'll be doing that icing course on my next long 20 hour layover on Sunday. Perfect to stay productive. Thanks for sharing guys - this is good stuff.... stuff I've really wanted to know for a while.