OOTSK

I remember all too well the Comair crash in Monroe MI. May they all rest in peace forever. May their family's heal quickly.

Baronpilot

I know that feeling.......and it's not fun.

HercDriver130

If you stay in this business long enough..( for me personally ...on and off for some 23 years ) .... you will bury a few friends..... in my case....17 in three separate accidents. Personally I never go on a trip with out telling my wife and two daughters how much I love them, you just never know if today might be the day.

Heart felt sorrow for those affected by this tragedy.

FlyJSH

Did the first flight checks today.


GPWS test made me sick.

Flare Armed

As a former snow, wind, thunderstorm, and ice-battling commuter pilot my heart really goes out to everyone at Colgan...and everyone else slogging it out in the mid-teens in the Great-Lakes region with nothing but de-ice boots and hot props. The rise of the RJ has sheltered many from this unique type of flying with the advantage of extra performance, high altitude cruise and heated wings. Such a senseless loss and a reminder of how much risk we all have come to accept as commonplace in this business, no matter what you fly.

Hopefully much will be learned from this tragedy so it doesn't happen again. I have really enjoyed reading all the nice stories about the crew...please keep them coming....I can think of no greater honor than having such praise come from my peers.

DWN3GRN

I dont want to speculate until a full investingation has been completed but this is a great video on tailplane icing. From what the NTSB has indicated so far, this video is pretty much is spot on.

NASA Tailplane Icing

My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved.. Godspeed

JoeyMeatballs

One thing I will say is for those that fly Turbo-Props, the experience you will gain while flying IN THE WEATHER is bar-none the best you will get. There was not 1 hour of the 800 I had in the SAAB that I wasn't learning something, especially when it comes to winter flying and ICE. One thing for sure is I always know when I am flying with a guy that has time in a Turbo-Prop, and you guys know what I mean

The media is clueless and I am sure they will view T-Props as dangerous but the fact is Turbo-props do 10x as many cycles as jets (minus some regional ones) and T/O & Landings are when bad things tend to happen, most major pilots do 2 landings a day, I know at Colgan it was 6, 7, and even 8 legs day for me and that alone just increases the chances of something happening, you make a 737 or 757 do that many short hops a day and the statistics would probably mirror that of a T-Prop as well.

Once again my thoughts to the crew & families of 3407 and I am impressed with all of you guys and this thread, class act!


This just breaks my heart, so sad.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...ot.family.kiro

Roper92

God bless the flight crew, passengers, bystanders, and their friends and families. God bless Colgan. You guys were my ride to and from work during my time at XJT and always made sure I got on. I read that the Captain was Houston based at one point and I may have met him. I was always welcomed with open arms when jumpseating on Colgan. Thank you and God bless.

greenlantern

I'm very sad for the loss of my Colgan brothers and sisters on flight 3407. I wish I would've had a chance to know them.

I did at least of the pleasure and honor of knowing and flying with Joe Zuffaletto. He was a really nice person and fun to fly with. I only got to fly with him once on a 2 day trip(when he was still on the SAAB), wish it could've been more. When I was on the fence between voting for ALPA or Teamsters, he helped convince me to vote for ALPA, glad I did. He will be missed.

My sympathies and prayers towards their families, as well as the families of the passengers.

Marvin, Rebecca, Joe, Matilda, and Donna...may you fly high.

-Mark

eaglefly

Just a few thoughts, because for all our sakes safety-wise, we need to consider some unpleasant and touchy issues of the planes we fly for a living. The autopilot issue was one of the aspects of the Roselawn accident........that the autopilot can mask deteriorating flight control issues, especially with regard to ice accretion. The ATR-72 is not a SF3 or smaller DHC-8 and neither is the Q400.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a requirement for Q400 ops in icing conditions that the autopilot be deselected in icing conditions (at least temporarily), if investigators find a strong icing involvement.

Many pilots I've flown with are unaware (or have forgotten) that in many airline aircraft, any icing that accretes on the side windows is not considered "normal" icing and is an indication that the airplane is flying in icing conditions that it is not certified for and is outside its flight testing envelope. When these conditions are encountered the autopilot must be selected off and the conditions existed ASAP.

These two pilots sounded like very good up and coming professional pilots, but I'm wondering the extent of their winter flying experience in LARGE and heavy turboprop aircraft were. Lets face it, this airplane is not a "commuter plane", but is an airliner. In fact, it is in many ways more demanding then most airline jets, because of its vulnerability to conditions EXACTLY like these. No "hot" wing, more limited performance, unpowered flight controls and extensive exposure to enroute icing. 3300 and 2200 hours respectively total time does not allow for a extensive exposure to this flying.

This aircraft (like the ATR-72) is a different animal then most of the smaller turboprops and due to its weight, unpowered flight controls and sophisticated automation making ops in more significant icing conditions demanding and require serious vigilence. There are MANY pilots flying the ATR that have a fairly complacant attitude about its operation in winter and signicant icing because they've never experienced the aircraft except in predominently benign conditions.

I'm not belittling these two apparently fine aviators, because it may turn out they were victims themselves of their lack of experience in THIS aircraft (of this size and in these conditions) and the ability to recognize they may have been in conditions the aircraft was not certified for and its susceptibility to control difficulties in certain phases of flight. I've heard here that this aircraft also is known for frequent deice system component faliure (the ATR had the same problem when relatively new) and if there was a faliure (especially in these conditions) that ATC should have been informed immeadiately for priority handling and the aircraft HAND FLOWN at higher speeds and shallow turns.

Hopefully the investigators will get a better handle on what happened fairly soon with the quality of the Boxes and we'll know if large turboprop icing has come back to tap us on the shoulder to remind us of its demands. Although the "hinge-moment reversal" issues related to the ATR are unlikley to be involved here, I have a sick feeling that another sad, tragic and painful lesson is once again being handed to us professional pilots about ops in significant icing.

For me, this is an emotional flashback to Holloween 1994 and the friends and collegues I lost that day and a tear sheds for what the employees of Colgan must be experiencing as well as the loved ones of the victims.

I've been there (and still am) and it doesn't get any easier. You forget sometimes............but then you remember.