EMB120IP

Attitude is everything. There's always openings to better yourself. Training department is a good one. If you think you can make a difference, try it. I've been here a long time, and I've made the best out of it. Sure there's been some frusterating times, but a heck of a lot better than living in a tent.

Put yourself in the shoes of some of these people with families losing their jobs. The reality of "I can't pay my bills, I can't feed my family, I can't take them to the doctor" sets in. You have it pretty good in my humble opinion (or IMHO for you internet savvy's). Let's try to make this thread a positive one...especially for those who are interested in the job.

Good luck online, be safe, and (since you are a CA) help your FO's become good captains. We count on you guys to set good examples for our future FO's.

Trogdor

Not a whole lot of jobs out there. It's a paycheck, and in the process some valuable experience.

Not much of a paycheck, and with the huge number of FOs on reserve, it is going to take 9-12 months before any new hire can even think about upgrading. You'd make more at Home Depot.

Not too long ago (about 9 years or so, and earlier), we only were outstation based. I'm sure it wasn't fun, but that's what it was. If it was sprung at the last second (like it was), it sucks.

That doesn't answer my question. Yes it would suck, I'm just trying to give people the reality.

Hmmm...I'm sure 1 limitation wouldn't affect the outcome of an upgrade, more or likely a list of problems led up to the 1 limitation etc. A failure of upgrade is nothing more than lack of preparation, as we are required to grade subjectively, not objectively. Nobody is perfect, and getting things mixed up/mislabeled happens, however a list of mixups/mislabels leads me to believe somebody wasn't prepared.

While I agree with you that upgrade failures are primarily due to lack of preparation, a lot of blame lies with the training department and their fear culture. You are expected to know everything before you show up for ground school, tell me where does the training take place? Some in the training department have tried to make changes, for example a day of training prior to the pretest, but Hoff doesn't see a problem with his approach and that is truly concerning. Or take the story of the three FOs recently fired during recurrent for failing the oral.

I'm not sure about falling apart, but we run these things 8-11 hours a day. Things are gonna break. Some people operate them like they are trying to break them. They AREN'T new, and are accumulating lots of time.

You can't honestly believe that maintenance issues haven't been worsening in the last year. Perhaps because you're on the 120 you don't see it, but on the 1900 it is getting worse every month. Yes we fly these aircraft a lot and that is the problem. The company is blinded by the cash waiting for them on routes we've been awarded but are not yet flying. Did you know that when the 1900s from Gulfstream showed up we were told that the corrosion was too bad to fix, but surprise we are flying them now! 218 seems to have a major maintenance issue every other day. The pure fact is that these airplanes are falling apart.

...you can only lose 2 of your days off, and get extended on your days on provided that you have some rest thrown in there. I'm senior and I'm still not immune, but again, deal with it. Junior manning isn't just here, it's everywhere in one shape or form.

Once again, not true. There are many jobs out there where junior-manning is not allowed. And again, it is the company's lack of proper crew utilization that causes this. If we only flew routes that we had the aircraft and personnel for, this wouldn't happen.

In the end, I've always said that I love the people that work at Lakes and I have made life-long friends here. But that does not take away from how bad of a company Lakes is to work for. This company is run by incompetent morons who can't think their way out of a paper bag. For those of you reading this, the concerns I am raising are more than just the rantings of a disgruntled CA. These are real issues that you should consider before coming to work here. A positive mind-set has its place, but so does a dose of reality.

ovrtake92

Trogdors comments represent how we have all felt at some point at the end of a 4 day, however IPs comments are the reality of the situation. Well put, and long time no see! I feel the sameway in what I got out of Great Lakes. The training department is a great way to get a break from the monotony of line flying. I love my current job and wouldnt trade it for a busload of hookers but I miss the days of wondering what sort of aviation shennanigans would pop up that day. A VOR circle approach from a dme arc in to DIK in a 30 kt crosswind or maybe popping out of an ILS in GCC at night only to find out the airport lights dont work. Im lucky to see an ILS to mins once a month nowadays and you bet your ass I kill the AP ditch the FD and shoot it like a Laker. Everyone used to say I would miss Lakes once I was gone and I guess "miss" is a strong word but I certainly look back fondly on the experience I gained so tak the experience for what it is and try to stay away from transvestite hookers in RIW. That being said I hope I can ride out this mess and keep the job I have because I have felt the same way trogdor has on many occasions.

bertramcheeks22

Will the union representaion ever fight for better pay rates? or pay during training?

1900luxuryliner

They will fight for it, that is for sure. The new union has a vested interest in drastically improving conditions, as well, as they are extremely interested in becoming a major player in the aviation union market. The progess they will make is anyone's guess. The people that run the company are tough as nails when it comes to bargaining. No soft spots, whatsoever. It's going to be a long and drawn out battle, that is for certain.

1900luxuryliner

I think between the negative picture you paint, and an overly positive picture anyone else may paint, is reality. I try not to be overly positive, but as far as all the negative stuff you talk about, in my experience it is not regularly experienced. Your experiences may vary, and maybe you have had a really terrible time at Lakes. I have not. Overall, it's been the best flying experience I ever had, and a lot of fun, most of the time. Maybe it comes down to luck, and how quick the seniority list was moving when you originally got on at Lakes, and how quick it is moving now, after you came back. Being stuck on the bottom is definitely not where anyone wants to be. I'm just fortunate I shot up the list the way I did. It was a timing thing, I guess. As far as what you say about the training department, I generally agree. Captain training should not rely almost solely with the individual training themselves, and through training provided by their captains. The upgrade candidate should be an extremely proficient FO before they go into upgrade, and have all the FO stuff absolutely nailed. But, as far as all the captain stuff that the training department never trains a person for, I don't think an upgrade candidate should be responsible for learning that on their own time. We don't get a lot of time off to begin with, but then when a person has to have their head buried in the books for a few months during all their days off, it gets to be a bit ridiculous. But, crafty ole' Lakes has found a way to cut down on training costs, yet still have some of the most experienced and knowledgeable captains that this industry could possibly offer. We do have great captains, despite what I see as faults in the way captain-specific training is handled. Like I said before, upgrade is really just a month-long checkride, that one has to train himself or herself for. I really don't agree with the process, at all. A captain should have no responsibility for training an FO how to eventually become a captain. They should be able to focus on improving aspects of their own performance, knowledge, abilities, etc. But, all the captains know how poor the captain-specific training is from the training department, so most go out of their way to get their FO's captain-specific knowledge up to par, before the FO becomes an upgrade candidate. I don't fault captains for doing this, whatsoever. It is what it is. Just my opinion on the matter.

SAMSON

Pacific Wings? New Mexico? Georgia Skies??

FSUpilot

yeah something like that

Gunga Galunga

Just my opinion, from someone on the outside of the argument looking in. As it's often said, no regional is a perfect fit. You are always going to give up on something (location, pay, work rules, QOL, etc). That being said, GLA does happen to be on the lower end of most categories. But what it lacks in other departments, it gains greatly because you can have a quick upgrade to the left seat, build time fast in hopes to move on, and fly an airplane that will make you a good pilot.

As with anything, going to new companies is a gamble. When times are good, you can go to GLA, upgrad quick and leave to something better in 2-3 years. When times are bad like now, you get stuck not making much money hoping things will break.

For me, I turned them down mainly because of the training contract. It's a calculated risk that I feel my airline will call us back before my training contract could expire at GLA. I enjoyed things there and want to go back. It could work out, might be a disaster. If it wasnt for that, I probably wouldve taken it, simply because its a 121 job that will allow you to continue to fly during bad times and make what a CFI might make (good luck trying to find a CFI job right now).

Positive, negative or otherwise it all comes down to what your situation dictates and what is the best thing for you to do in your life.

The Juice

Why would they pay more when there are a stack of applications of pilots wanting to work for $16 an hour after they get $0.0 for training?