Regional Airline Pilots, what are you worth?
12-17-2008, 05:52 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: seeking the right seat
Posts: 64
12-17-2008, 06:40 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 148
How about this... somebody make a website to honor the folks that are making an about face in this career. Show the guts it takes to say no to crappy wages and make them look like heroes. Give guys and gals true alternatives to the regionals other than teaching (for a crappy wage as well). Make flying look "not cool" and we'll have a true pilot shortage. If wages don't increase, we're fools for taking the jobs.
I don't have the answer, but it's obvious what the problem is: too much supply and not enough demand. It's time to thin the herd one way or another... because if you think even $30,000 is a fair wage for any seat in a 121 cockpit, you should introduce yourself to other lines of work.
I don't have the answer, but it's obvious what the problem is: too much supply and not enough demand. It's time to thin the herd one way or another... because if you think even $30,000 is a fair wage for any seat in a 121 cockpit, you should introduce yourself to other lines of work.
12-17-2008, 06:43 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
I like the title to this thread, it poses a good question that every pilot should answer for him/herself.
It's easy to displace responsibility to other people, but at the end of the day every pilot needs to make his/her own decision of what they are willing to work for.
$20k is steep, but who's to say that if pay went to $13-$15k pilots would still work at those pay rates. Maybe if salaries fell below $10k pilot would still work.
Bottom line is that we all need to decide for ourselves what price tag we are willing to put on our skills and abilities. Management will always dangle promises or aircraft, growth, upgrades, attrition, and prosperity over our heads as a pilot group, it's up to each and every one us to start grasping in the air. Promises don't cost management anything so they will dispense them with the greatest of ease.
If there is a willingness to work for sub-par wages, then management will win over labor time and time again.
Again, great thread title, but more importantly than knowing what you are worth is what to do when you've chosen and determined what your worth is. That I'd say would be the million dollar question.
It's easy to displace responsibility to other people, but at the end of the day every pilot needs to make his/her own decision of what they are willing to work for.
$20k is steep, but who's to say that if pay went to $13-$15k pilots would still work at those pay rates. Maybe if salaries fell below $10k pilot would still work.
Bottom line is that we all need to decide for ourselves what price tag we are willing to put on our skills and abilities. Management will always dangle promises or aircraft, growth, upgrades, attrition, and prosperity over our heads as a pilot group, it's up to each and every one us to start grasping in the air. Promises don't cost management anything so they will dispense them with the greatest of ease.
If there is a willingness to work for sub-par wages, then management will win over labor time and time again.
Again, great thread title, but more importantly than knowing what you are worth is what to do when you've chosen and determined what your worth is. That I'd say would be the million dollar question.
12-17-2008, 06:50 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: RJ FO
Posts: 171
12-17-2008, 07:14 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 125
I start from the perspective that a fundamental paradigm has shifted. One use to get a job at a regional after instructing for 2000 hrs. That regional was viewed as a stepping stone to a well paid Legacy carrier. That pilot looked at the “Legacy” job for its career expectations. The company laid out your compensation package as such, slow start with first year wages and then annual raises until you topped out. That compensation over a career was pretty damn good. Now the whole system has been turned on its head. Legacies are no longer what they used to be. Many pilots have traded their company blazers for the gold ties of Net Jets because they are in a business that understands excellence and respect for their front line customer reps…ie pilots. I'm not a NetJet’er, just stating what I've seen happening to the industry. Majors are “skinnying” down, lowering total pay compensation and forcing their pilots to work longer for less...so much for that.
Regionals have replaced many of the flights once flown by the larger carriers. They have jets that are the same size relative to the old 90 seaters and are being paid about 1/3 of the wages of the old mainline guys. Due to stagnation, the hopes of making up for lost time and wages are gone. Many pilots at Regionals are staying because that is the only way they will be able to make any real money flying. An eight to ten year CA for a descent regional will make between 70,000 and 100,000 and hold enough seniority to actually see his family. If he/she were to leave that behind and start anew, there is the ever present danger of being tossed to the street because the market soured. I personally think RJ guys need to start thinking long term with the companies they are employed by instead of accepting abysmal compensation with the hope of flying heavy tin. Lets face it some will move on and some will give up on the industry, but we need to push for better pay/work rules that reflect our value added contribution to the end product. I fly the same routes that mainline NB guys fly. I provide the company with the ability to add frequency without much more cost, giving my customers greater flexibility.
Compensation should be tied to levels of responsibility and impact on the end product. If those in other sectors of the business world were compensated as we are with the constant expectation that you are not supposed to stay with the company for any period before starting anew at depressed wages with a different company, you would see an immediate push back.
True the antiquated RLA has been a millstone around our necks. This needs to be addressed and I mean NOW. FOs should be paid at least $60,000 and CA's $100,000. How much are project mangers paid? How much does a CPA get? What about a Physicians assistant? Hell a manager at a fast food restaurant makes that kind of money. It’s all about Guys setting minimums. Professional athletes have a floor that all players make.....league wide. The same principle should be applied to this profession. Pilots at mainline should be pressuring their Mgmt to set standards for the flying of any routes at their carriers. No more take my job and give it away to a contract carrier at 2/3 discount. The price per hour per seat mile is "x" whether they fly it or a contractor. Look at it this way, Tony Romo couldn't give a rats pa-tooty what Joe Schnickle-Fritz 2nd string lineman is able to negotiate for pay, but he would stand on a picket line to ensure that every player that dons a uniform makes a minimum for that level of play.
Contract talks are ongoing, now is the time to start getting this worked out. Low-ballers would have to compete on their service if pilot wages were a fixed cost instead of an ATM to folks like Lorenzo, Icahn, Ornstein and Hulas.
just my dos centavos
Regionals have replaced many of the flights once flown by the larger carriers. They have jets that are the same size relative to the old 90 seaters and are being paid about 1/3 of the wages of the old mainline guys. Due to stagnation, the hopes of making up for lost time and wages are gone. Many pilots at Regionals are staying because that is the only way they will be able to make any real money flying. An eight to ten year CA for a descent regional will make between 70,000 and 100,000 and hold enough seniority to actually see his family. If he/she were to leave that behind and start anew, there is the ever present danger of being tossed to the street because the market soured. I personally think RJ guys need to start thinking long term with the companies they are employed by instead of accepting abysmal compensation with the hope of flying heavy tin. Lets face it some will move on and some will give up on the industry, but we need to push for better pay/work rules that reflect our value added contribution to the end product. I fly the same routes that mainline NB guys fly. I provide the company with the ability to add frequency without much more cost, giving my customers greater flexibility.
Compensation should be tied to levels of responsibility and impact on the end product. If those in other sectors of the business world were compensated as we are with the constant expectation that you are not supposed to stay with the company for any period before starting anew at depressed wages with a different company, you would see an immediate push back.
True the antiquated RLA has been a millstone around our necks. This needs to be addressed and I mean NOW. FOs should be paid at least $60,000 and CA's $100,000. How much are project mangers paid? How much does a CPA get? What about a Physicians assistant? Hell a manager at a fast food restaurant makes that kind of money. It’s all about Guys setting minimums. Professional athletes have a floor that all players make.....league wide. The same principle should be applied to this profession. Pilots at mainline should be pressuring their Mgmt to set standards for the flying of any routes at their carriers. No more take my job and give it away to a contract carrier at 2/3 discount. The price per hour per seat mile is "x" whether they fly it or a contractor. Look at it this way, Tony Romo couldn't give a rats pa-tooty what Joe Schnickle-Fritz 2nd string lineman is able to negotiate for pay, but he would stand on a picket line to ensure that every player that dons a uniform makes a minimum for that level of play.
Contract talks are ongoing, now is the time to start getting this worked out. Low-ballers would have to compete on their service if pilot wages were a fixed cost instead of an ATM to folks like Lorenzo, Icahn, Ornstein and Hulas.
just my dos centavos
12-17-2008, 07:50 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: RJ driver
Posts: 320
Only as long as Daddy keeps paying the bills. The era of cheap loans seems to be on the way out. Riddle has seen a huge drop off of pilot enrollees because the airlines are no longer seen as the great paying job it used to be.
Why pay over a hundred grand for a minimum wage job with a great view?
Why pay over a hundred grand for a minimum wage job with a great view?
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