1900luxuryliner

You're pretty much right. The concepts and ideas presented are not rocket science. The problem is that you are blasted with a fire hose with this information. There is almost not enough time in the day, during training, to get all of this information in your head. They make you memorize things about the company, airplane, etc. that are not absolutely necessary. I would say that it's information that is good to know, but not stuff that really has to be memorized in order to fly the aircraft safely. That is just the game they play. We had a street captain who had multiple type ratings from another regional, and he specifically told me that his type in the Beech 1900D at Lakes was the hardest type rating he had ever achieved. His other types were in aircraft much more complicated than the Beech...

248ToTheMarker

This is the most ridiculous comment I've ever read on APC. You have to be kidding me right?

Is that the real reason why you quit? Sound like you may have been having a hard time with endoc...

Everthing that 1900LuxeryLiner has said is right on. Show up as a PROFICENT instrument rated pilot with a good attitude and you can make it. I don't have the limited time in the simulator to teach you how to fly any of the approaches. If you can't fly a ILS-sorry you should have been ready for it. Can't fly a NDB? I'll sit in a classroom and review "push the head, pull the tail" but I can't fly it for you. But I will teach you how to fly the 1900 with random emergencies/abnormals while flying those approaches. I'll teach you how to handle a engine failure at V1, or teach you how to fly the 1900 to our approach profiles.

Sorry for the rant but I can't handle 121 pilots complaining about flying "out-dated" eqipment. Yeah NDB's are going out, but a few of the places we fly to have NDB approaches, so we train on them. And who knows, you may have a engine failure while going to that city. So you may have to do a OEI NDB approach with a 25 knot crosswind. Chances are that you will never have that situation, but I can sleep at night knowing that if you do, you'll be trained on how to handle that situation.

As far as ground school, there is a lot of crap that they teach you that you'll probably never have to use, but GLA wants you to know it. But keep in mind that we hire captains. The training is basically the same for a newhire to a upgrade.

GrummanCT

[QUOTE=They adamantly believe that you should be able to fly the following approaches, before entering training: LOC, LOC DME, LOC BC, LOC BC DME, VOR, VOR DME, ILS, ILS DME, and NDB. You should also be able to enter a hold, have situational awareness, fly DME arcs, follow missed approach procedures, circle off an approach, and obviously, have a pretty good instrument scan. .[/QUOTE]

I cant believe people are actually complaining about this. Sounds like an average .299 ride to me.

If you cant fly these type of approaches in your sleep, than you have no business flying IFR, let alone with passengers.

GrummanCT

umm.... Just got back from Flight Safety and flew single engine, ILS 4R (No GS) @ JFK, circle to land 31R with an engine fire short final. This is basic stuff required of you when your flying at this level, and if you have to say "i cant imagine" than I cant imagine you being ready.

rickB

just went through october class with 15 people... times ranged from 250 hours to 3500 hours ... everyone passed except 1 person who pulled out during systems ,,, i was a low timer with about 800 hours and 500 multi... the training wasnt bad at all... sim was fun flight training was fun the ground school got a little dry going through the 121 regs but u gotta know it... as long as you show up and study its easy and the flying is badass!! if you dont pass the training here you shouldnt be flying a plane with passengers it really is not that hard... just my two cents

Luv2Rotate

Check your PM

Pontius Pilot

Amen my brother, amen. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that account.

If you can't fly a single engine NDB down to minimums with the worst winds ever, find something else to do or get the training to be able to do it. Not having the equipment in the plane you trained in is no excuse. I hate hearing that cop-out. Hell, my C172 didn't have ACARS or an FMS in it, but I know how to use it in the ATR. I didn't have an RMI or HSI either, but I learned. If you've got the equipment in your plane, you dang well better be able to use it. That's part of being a 121 pilot - getting people to their destinations alive, trained to handle the absolute worst if it should happen...and do it with a smile.

md11phlyer

If you're scared that the training is going to be too hard, don't show up, you won't make it. If you don't know how, or don't think it's necessary to know how, to hand fly all of the previously stated approaches to minimums with an emergency then don't show up, you won't make it.

Getting through training at Lakes takes the right combination of confidence (blind arrogance at times) and discipline. It's not hard, it's very thorough and you're expected to do a lot of self study. That being said, that training environment has made every other training program I've been through a breeze (except maybe 727 engineer).

The final approach for my CA upgrade/ATP ride there was a single engine arc to the NDB 26 in CYS in the actual airplane with winds 38 gust 50 on the ground. I still have the weather printout for posterity. But in true Laker fashion, the winds were right down the runway so it was a breeze (the crab angle in the arc looked pretty wild though!).

Luv2Rotate

Gotta love the challenge.

camba0a6

Thats pretty much right on! Think of it this way, initial training at Lakes is more of an evaluation rather then training! They want to see you can fly the plane, and shoot a one engine NDB approach, if need be, by yourself (in case your capt winds up incapacitated) The training actually comes on the line, when you learn everything from an operational point of view, and in the end, your evaluation and training come together to help you with upgrade, because it comes fast!!

As far as what aviatiorhi says, I am not going to even start with him, but lets just say, the reasons he stated were not the reason why he left training!

As far as my class, that everyone seems to talk about, there were indeed 11 of us, 3 on the bro and 8 on the beech! 2 made it to the line, one in the bro and one in the beech! I can say on the beech side, One failed endoc, and 5 failed the sim! Everyone really had problems in the sim and to be fair, the sim is a monster to handle, especially when you are learning new flows and procedures! However from what I understand, is that the common factor through the sim sessions, was that the overall scan was lacking and the main contributing factor to the discontinuance. This is something that is not east to pin point in a one on one interview and as much as it sucked, I agree that Lakes (or any 121 carrier) should not use valuable time and resources to teach a basic instrument scan! The other person who did not make it through the flight portion was having problems in the sim and felt it would be wise to discontinue!

Advice to new comers, Let all of the talk scare the crap out of you, and hopefully it will drive you to study hard on your own, even before you come to groundschool. However, the moment you get to groundschool, relax, have a positive attitude, ask lots of questions, every now and then smile to a few of the higher ups, and you will do just fine! Just be prepared to study hard and get used to the fire hose drill!! Also, I would recommend going into a sim prior to coming to lakes and touching up your scan! It worked for me, and it doesn't have to be anything fancy! Go to your local flight school and get a few hours in a frasca sim, and if you can, set the sim on a tougher, faster setting, it will prepare you for shooting approaches at 180KIAS. Its a bit different then a 90Kts!!

Rick B, just curious how many had the 250hrs in the class? I have a few friends in that lower hour range trying to get a job! PM me if you like!!