kycycles

nice one...

its called capitalism and supply and demand... the supply is great and the demand is low. when you are on the bad end of this it sucks, but when you are on the good end...life is great. right now there are a ton of pilots out there and everyone is doing what they can to try and make sure their job is secure. i personally do not blame anyone for that. however, in the long run, this is not a good thing for colgan and the people on the bottom will suffer first. and, if by chance, the company survives, everyone else will have to pick up the slack.

it is well known that colgan was hanging on by the skin of there teeth when the gas prices went through the roof, but yet no one was let go. this could have been a totally different outcome.

i will say it again. in these times...any job is better than no job

also, i have all the time in the world to post. i quit my job...remember

kycycles

i have heard about that, but i do not know the particulars. and, without making assumptions, i think it would be best to reserve judgment until you know the facts.
FO's are not required to do the test or oversee the test, so i am going to go out on a limb and say there may be more to this case than you and i know.
we all know how gossip and rumor spreads. i am sure you played the game in kindergarten. where the teacher tells the student something and then they pass it on. by the time it gets to the last student, the saying is completely different.
i am not saying the fo is guilty or innocent of wrong doing. i am saying i do not know all the facts...just what i heard. this kind of thing is obviously not a common occurence, and there is always horror stories to be told. these are more often scare tactics then truth.

in my time with colgan, i have never known, or been a part of any type of infraction. i have called in sick without threat of termination. i have even turned down extensions without the threat of termination or a missed trip, even though it is clearly stated that they can do that. the common thought by some is you will be fired and it was simply not true in my case.

kalyx522

So. At first it sounded like you left Colgan because you didn't like it:
But your subsequent posts show that you had all in all a pretty positive experience. So why did you leave? Or did you not leave at all? Because it sure seems like you are still at Colgan, and actually you sound a lot like this captain I know. Or did you even ever work at Colgan as a pilot? Either way, you're not fooling anyone.

If your opinion is such that unions are bad, fine, that is your opinion. Honestly though, you need to rethink your strategies. If you want to convince someone of your opinion, don't threaten or give ultimatums. (see "if you dont like your job then leave!!!!!!") You turn more people against you than not this way.
If you want to sound intelligent, attack the argument, not the person. (see "in my experience... the people that wanted unions the most were the most incompetent.") I know what you're doing, and it's very transparent - trying to weaken someone's argument by attacking them personally... but you know what, any tool can say, "Abortions are bad because the people that want abortions are dumb." or "Abortions are good because the people who opppose them are dumb." Are you a tool? I didn't think so, so let's stick to intelligent arguments.

And finally...

Does it matter if you'd ever vote or not vote? Bottom line is you aren't an eligible voter in this election, you can't vote, and you won't be affected by the outcome. Not like you're still at Colgan or anything.

captain152

That had to have been the longest back to back to back conversation via posts I've ever seen ... nice debate!!

Cruise

Tell me again why you have all this free time to troll the message boards? Thanks for your concern for us.....but we neither want it, nor need it. ALL 121 carriers NEED legal representation. You claim it is unionism that is destroying the airlines? Hardly! It is poor management that, year after year, rape the company with their tremendously bloated salaries, poor management, and lack of foresight. Managements have used employee wage and work rule concessions historically to 'save the company from liquidation.' Then, when the employees bear the burden of keeping the company afloat, management types reward themselves with bonuses. YGTBFSM! Never again will airline labor allow this to happen. Full pay 'til the last day. If the company sinks, then so be it! It is managements job to prevent this......hmmm, here's an idea: perhaps they could shoulder the burden of concessions since their supposedly a leader. Remember, don't ask someone else to do something, if you aren't first willing to do it yourself!

kycycles

who are you to determine how much the top brass should get paid? ITS NOT YOUR COMPANY, ITS NOT YOUR JOB.
poor management consists of allowing the unions in.
Look at Walmart the unions have been knocking on their doors since the beginning. Walmart said no..they did not fold to the pressure, and i applaud them.
One of two things will happen when the unions come in and start squeezing colgan for money. 1:if you are lucky, the cost will simply be past on to the consumer and things will keep ticking along 2: the more likely scenario will be, since the economy is in the tank and flying is down anyway, that colgan will have to make it up in the form of lay off's and cutbacks.

There are talks going on to bring foreign airline competition into the market. competition that doesn't have unions. if this happens, u.s. carriers are screwed becasue they will not be able to compete. i.e. auto makers, the steel industry, many consumer goods industries.

I am sure there will be some nice short term gains from the union.....but you have got to look long term. what good does higher pay do you if the company is not there to pay. if you loose your job you have to start over somewhere else. Colgans pay scale will not get much higher, even with a union.

As far as representation goes. There are many lawers out there...go get on if you need one. i am sure they would love an opportunity wage a lawsuite against an airline. that must have dollar signs written all over it.

kycycles

you can try and poke holes in me all you want. but i believe i have done a pretty good job of attacking the arguments concerning the unions.

The bottom line is this: The unions number one priority is to get more money for their pilots, which in turn makes more money for them. they will squeeze the life out of colgan if they can. and from the sound of it, that is what is driving the vote from the pilots, for the most part.
The idea that the pilots are not represented is false. there are lawyers on every corner of every street on this country. If there are so many people that need representation, maybe you should all pitch in and hire one.
There is a lot of complaining going on, but if you really look around and ask around, there are a few pilots out there that are actually in trouble. that wont change when the unions come. pilots are still going to get in trouble. If anything, the unions may help to keep a pilot on that otherwise may need to be fired. they do this by a use of force and intimidation. they force the idea that it is less expensive to let the pilot fly rather than fire him/her and face a law suite from the union. Does this promote saftey?????

i will say it again. you can get what you want without a union.

The Juice

ITS BECAUSE THEY ARE FOREIGN!!!!!!!!!

Jamers

Kalyx522 and Kycycles.... both your names start with K!

Hopefully I just flew my last flight as a non-union airline pilot.

kalyx522

It's a conspiracy.. we are actually the same person.

Seriously though this guy's just flamebait.. I think he (or quite possibly a she) still works at Colgan, whether he's a pilot or not who knows and who cares. The people who were going to vote have already voted, and the people who weren't going to vote aren't going to. I guess we should make all start making alternate plans for our futures though, because Colgan is going to go bankrupt next year if this union thing pushes through. Oh well.