p1ayn

Andy..very well said. I have been saying that contracts mean NOTHING! Abosolutely NOTHING! Delta will, has and will continue to do whatever they want to make their plan work, as Comair has witnessed. Noone and I mean noone including he NWA side is exempt.

p1ayn

Thats just funny and naive.

ThunderChicken

I can't figure out this euphoric feeling that 9E pilots have. You have newer airplanes, that doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Your performance on the NWA side is great but they run things different than DAL, look at your performance in ATL and you will see what I mean. Your cheaper, but if you guys get a new contract (which you deserve), and it is a good one, then there goes the cost advantage. Plus, Delta will require more crews per airplane than you have now, increasing cost even more. NWA does not exist anymore (technically). It is a Delta world now and you guys have to realize things are not going to be the same. NO ONE knows what is going to happen, EVERYONE has a chance at growth, shrinkage, bankruptcy, more airplanes, whatever.

SrfNFly227

Actually this does make a difference. Newer airplanes are going to have a lower operating cost (Fuel burn, maintenance problems, etc). If DL decides it is going to start parking 200's, it won't be the new ones.

ATL is a different game than our NWA bases. From what I understood, we were set up for failure from the beginning (gates too far apart, ops too far away, unrealistic block times). These problems were addressed and when we kept the contract, our numbers got significantly better. Also, performance numbers are very good in MEM, DTW, and MSP. Are they the best??? I am not sure. But at our operating cost, they are surely competitive.

This is actually a very good point. It is something that I am concerned about. It is also something that I hope our union is considering while in negotiations. While I do think that we deserve more money and better work rules, I don't want industry leading by any measure. Industry leading only makes you less competitive in the new aviation world.



I should point out that I have no idea who will keep what flying. I don't think anybody could know, including DL. I am simply pointing out why some at Pinnacle feel that we have a good shot at keeping what we currently operate. I personally think that DL will cut whichever contracts the lawyers decide are easiest to get out of. I say grab some popcorn and watch it happen. As pilots, there is nothing we can do to stop any of it.

thrustsetrj200

[quote=SrfNFly227;504629]Actually this does make a difference. Newer airplanes are going to have a lower operating cost (Fuel burn, maintenance problems, etc). If DL decides it is going to start parking 200's, it won't be the new ones.

Mesaba and Pinnacle know full well that "big daddy mainline" (that goes for NWA and DL) has NO problem swapping aircraft between their regionals. Mesaba got 16 or 17 of Pinnacles newer CRJ200s. Just handed them over. Also, DL decided to hand over the few CRJ900s that Pinnacle is currently operating to Mesaba. So just because you have the newest CRJ200s today doesn't mean you will be keeping them.
I also have a real hard time reading someone brag that their airline has the lowest operating costs. That means LOW wages and that's not the direction we should be going. But I understand that makes a regional competitive. Where do you draw the line??

CTPILOT

very true. I am gonna bring up the subject of a wholly owned merger, like Ealge is made up of multiple regionals like BizEx e.t.c. It would be crazy but again its crazy times. At Comair we just got a new CEO and doing massive downsizing so were guessing the "M" word is a potential.

ThunderChicken

Newer airplanes means they are easier to sell. There is still a big market for our 50 seat friends overseas. I agree newer airplanes are more efficient, but not to the point where the opportunity cost of keeping them is greater than selling them. Just my opinion, no flamebait intended at all.

higney85

[QUOTE=thrustsetrj200;504644]
You disregard 2 facts from the points you are making.

The 16 airframe transfer of -200's was written into our ASA with NWA. If we did not have a pilot contract in place by March 31st, 2008 we lost them. We obviously did not have a contract and around aug/sept the planes had all been transfered.

The 7 900's pncl will transfer to mesaba were the 7 we were to operate "temporarily" from Mesa. The transfer/delivery schedule from 9E to XJ is the same delivery schedule of 9E's remaining order of -900's from bombardier.


I refuse to acknowledge any "euphoric" feeling on the 9E side, just correcting any misnomers that are stated on public boards. When going through 9E crewrooms the "doom and gloom" discussions are abundant. Time will tell what happens to everyone, I for one am nervous but also in full understanding that beyond doing my job to the best of my ability there is nothing I can do and worrying only impacts my QOL negatively.

The operating cost discussion is dead on. There are more senior (relative) groups that are more expensive but with the very junior levels at XJ and Compass this fact gets negated overall.

cencal83406

Well at least they can't get rid of 11 of our airplanes. Anything with PQ on the tail can't be touched by Delta unless we go out of business.

ebl14

To address all of the shots to the ribs from one pilot group to another:

The current situation is not a new one. Over the years there are usually some airlines furloughing and some hiring. I think the youth of the pilots on this board is very obvious with a large number of these posts. When you choose a place to work it is a total GUESS as to whether or not it will be a good choice in the long run. If you are furloughed... too bad but you may have guessed wrong, but don't worry most of us will be in your shoes at some point in our careers as well. If you are at a growing airline you need to feel lucky for being where you are and also know that you may be the one in the furloughees shoes in the future, so try to use a little more thought and insight before you start your celebrations. The bottom line is... lucky or not, don't hate your fellow pilots. We will only survive and maintain our status as a group of highly qualified professionals if those of us one the lucky side can support those who aren't so lucky. So check your ego at the door and lets try to help each other out instead of cut each other down.