colinflyin

I just updated my airlineapps. The $55 dollars was not easy being furloughed. I hope I didn't waste my money, I have a little over 1500 and prior 121 experience. I'm still thinking I wasted my money, but how else can you get your resume to Eagle or Pinnacle the two airlines that may be hiring in the near future (supposedly). Hopefully Eagle will begin hiring soon and Ill get a call.

pagey

Just do a new app for each airline and its free.....It's a pain in the butt and it takes a while but it doesn't cost you 60 bucks.

colinflyin

I paid it 2 years ago when I was hired with my other airline so they have my name and SSN so no free apps for me. I feel like I wasted $55 but all I can do is try.

bad attitude

Well good luck!

AmericanEagleFO

Take it for what you will but yesterday I was talking to somebody in the training dept. and he told me 1Q hiring. Kinda a given but this may help solidify the assumptions. Get those apps in order boys.

JDFlyer

Just a few thoughts from a regional airline captain . . . me.

On the one hand it is great to read your posts about how enthusiastic you are about applying at Eagle. I know you all are excited about starting your 121 flying job. (Please note I said job, and NOT career).

I don't fly for Eagle, I fly for Skywest, but a regional airline job is a regional airline job.

I ask the following questions out of true concern for young men and women like you today as you look to start your "adventure" in the airline business.

1) Are you prepared psychologically and emotionally to spend the remainder of your airline life at a regional airline?

- - - - I have been in this industry for almost 8 years and I can say that with direction of the industry today, and it will not change and go back to the way it was, only 10% to 15% of you will ever be able to advance your career beyond flying a regional aircraft. Your individual skill, talents, and all the effort in the world will not change this reality.

2) Are you willing to make the financial sacrifices for yourself and your family as your working years tick by and you try to save for your and your families retirement years on regional pilot pay?

- - - - At this point in your young life you may think it is a pay raise over instructing or what ever it is you do. This is very short sighted. Business executives always think and act in terms of "opportunity costs". So should you. In other words what other business opportunities are you missing out on by being a regional airline pilot?

3) Are you willing to sacrifice your personal and family life for the rest of your working years spending your life in mediocre hotel rooms, happy with the very, very, sub-standard Quality of Life that regional airline life provides?

- - - - I have been at Skywest for 6 years now and here is my company awarded line every month - 4 days on, 2 days off, 4 days on, 2 days off, 4 days on, 2 days off, 4 days on, 2 days off, . . . . getting the picture? Good luck commuting on this schedule. You get home just in time, to clean your dirty underwear, repack and head back to the airport. (For those reading this wondering how this schedule really exists - the answer - Skywest 4 day trips pay so pathetically, that you never really ever get close to your 30 in 7 on a 4 day trip, so the company can keep you sitting in hotel rooms and not having to pay you for your time and need only give you 2 days off between pairings. Remember what I said about opportunity costs above? Any of this making sense yet?) For those of you who will not commute, but live in base, try supporting yourself and your family in Chicago, or New York or any big city airline base on regional pilot pay.

4) Making your passion, flying, or your hobby, flying, your job is actually reckless and very shortsighted.

- - - - You have given your employer control over you completely when you do this. You will "bend over", and gladly do so, and justify it in your own head time and time again, because of your "passion" for flying. Keep flying your passion by doing it in your spare time. It is a great hobby, but a really, really lousy career. (Again, are you willing to roll the dice and spend a large part of your adult working life only to find out you will not be part of the 10% to 15% who will move on to a quality airline?)

Sorry for the long post, I am almost done.

So what do I recommend for you young enthusiastic pilots? I mean this in all honesty, have you ever considered ATC? Seriously, it is a government job, hence great work schedule, every night at home with your family, holidays off, GUARANTEED PAY and GUARANTEED BENEFITS, GUARANTEED RETIREMENT. I am well past the age limit to apply for these jobs, so I can't do it. But maybe some of you can.

Final words, for those of you asking yourself what the heck a yahoo like me (a regional captain) is doing trying to post in your forum, I offer the following. As a first generation airline pilot, nobody I knew could give me any advice when I was getting started, I didn't even know any airline pilots. I am in it too deep now to just jump out. I am very lucky, and I firmly believe luck has much to do with it, I will hopefully be part of that 10% to 15% that move on - I am swimming in the pool at Southwest. I am 42 years old, but I have promised myself and my family, if by 45 I am not at Southwest, or if that does not work out, a comparable company, I am done with aviation and will go do something else that is worthy of my time, effort and sacrifice.

Flying a Piper Cub around a grass strip on the weekends will be enough for me. Good luck with the choices you make in your lives, they will all have consequences - both good and bad.

eaglefly

To those applying at Eagle, my question is this ;

Have you ever seen the movie, 'The Exorcist' ?

There's a scene where the wise old priest familiar with the "demon" tells the younger and less experieiced priest that the demon will not outright lie, but mix lies with the truth.

Well, that's my take on the post above.

It's true that the majority of current and future regional pilots will never see a major. This is because there are not only enough seats NOT to go around, but because more regionals will be flying a larger percenatage of domestic flying in the future as mainline scope continues to either be watered down or bypassed by regionals successfully going out on their own with larger RJ's that can actually make money as opposed to the past efforts with 50-seaters almost guaranteed to fail. Regionals are now starting to code share with LCC's.

The majority of senior regional pilots make salaries anywhere from $70,000 at the smaller RJ operators and as much as $130,000 at larger, more senior ones like Eagle. Healthcare, 401(k) and travel bennies that most instructing jobs don't provide are also there, so the tale above of dungeon work is a overblown to say the least. Compared to many other professions, your family will not necessarily be making sacrifices they wouldn't should you choose other professions.

The assertion that ALL regional pilots stay in "mediocre" hotel rooms on all their layovers is pure malarkey. Here at Eagle we stay in some darn nice hotels and some that are just average, but rarely will be one considered a dump.

Additionally, the rediculous assertion that our (and yours, if you choose to fly for a regional) quality of life is "very, very sub-standard" is absurd. If you DO choose Eagle, do know that upgrade to captain is currently at about 9 years and no guarantee of shortening in the future.

Finally..........for some character to tell you that "making flying your job" is "reckless and very shortsighted" is akin to the demon mentioned above telling you to follow him, for he knows best.

It would seem the above comments were born of someone whose reality has not yet met his dreams and likely never will. Yes, it's unlikely you'll be a 30-year old $120K 767 F/O at the Porsche dealership or a 35 year old $180K 737 Captain with $500K already banked in your pension, a new $500K house and an Extra 300 out at the local airport. If you cling to this, you'll end up like the guy above.

My advice is get valid information about the regional you sign on with so you're realistic about that carriers world. Have REALISTIC expectations, instead of highly unlikely fantasies that almost certanly will never occur to avoid being mad at the world for the rest of your days and finally, look around at the rest of the country for a sobering anchor of what IS reality to better guage where you are on your career path.

It sounds as if his carrier is indeed a nightmare, but for those considering Eagle, if you want specific FACTUAL information, get a cross section of Eagle pilots to tell you. Again, the biggest complaint here (valid) is a very long upgrade time. But the other areas of our airline fare MUCH better then the doom-and-gloom fable that's being spewed above.

Flyby1206

Agreed. The only thing I really would complain about at Eagle is the payrate (mainly on the FO side). I didnt go to Skywest expecting to upgrade in 1 yr and move on to FedEx. I know several people on the outside world (non-aviation) who make six figures and they are still miserable. If your happiness and success depend on money then you will be disappointed no matter how much of it you make.

eaglefly

A professional airline pilot should make far more then the starting salaries that exist. F/O scales should keep pace with captains right up to the maximum years in a captains scale and yes, this is a systemic problem in the regional industry.

However, once one DOES make captain, compared to the rest of the population it's not a fraction of the misery the other poster claims. There are exceptions like Mesa and a few others, but many pilots find themselves at 40 are having kids and want stability. I'd guess a poll of most of our recent upgrades over the last 2 years or so would show most really aren't all fired up to start at the bottom of any major carrier given the perilous relaities that loom. Regional flying seems unstoppable in its slow, but steady expansion and that is lkley where the job security will lie in the future. Talking to many of our recently upgraded captains, they LOVE the possiblity of picking up one day of OT (say 6-7 hours) and making their monthly mortgage payment with it...........flying an airplane to boot.

Plenty of people in this country could only dream of such a thing.

If the majors had more to offer than 16 days off/month (common at Eagle), growth and expansion to offset the likelyhood of furlough and/or stagnation and still had pension, I'd think more would take the gamble.

As it stands now, IMO, major carriers are only good for those already there, the majority of whom are fighting to keep what they have, get what they lost and somehow carve out some assemblance of a career that once was the bees knees, but has been reduced by ruthless profit minded managements and inevitable market forces to that only slightly better then the life of a senior regional pilot at a quality regional, but who knows.......maybe that will change for the better, but it doesn't look that way now. This doesn't apply to captains at the larger majors, for that job IS much better, but it's a dying career. The average junior to mid seniority F/O at UAL or U isn't much (if at all) above the senior Eagle captain, a pension that isn't really any better then the $1 for $1 401(k) match for senior dogs here and the trips are similar. What might be a little better seems to be at the expense of job security.

I wouldn't tell a pilot NOT to shoot for a major, but most wont get there and that senior large RJ slot of the future is where the best chance for the combination of pay and security will likely lie. Corporate flying is a crapshoot and the fractional biz is crumbling.

Of course, the best plan is to become a multimillionaire and fly your own plane for fun/business like stated above, but that's as much fantasy as expecting to be at a major at 28 and a $200K captain there at 35.

I think the real problem with many is the SELF-INDUCED set of unrealistic expectations they've shouldered.

BTW, back in the late 70's new-hire 727 F/E's at places like Braniff and Peoples Express started at $200/week. Of course, that's in late 1970's dollars, but for 727 flying.............jeez. I think Sully mentions in his book he started sideways in a 727 for PSA at about that salary in 1980 or something. I'll bet he was thrilled to work there and fairly optomistic which is quite the opposite of todays batch of whiney Ritalin babies angry that they're not getting their applesauce when and where they expect it.

AtlCSIP

How much is the job worth? If people are accepting the postition at the rates the airlines are paying, that's what the job is worth. If you want the salaries to go up, stop working for low wages.

I was hired at a regional in the last year and did not take the job. Couldn't take the pay cut, and wasn't willing to accept the quality of life for the meager pay. If it looked like a step to a realistic opportunity in a short time, I may have done it, but the cost-benefit analysis did not look good enough to do it.

How many of you have walked away from a flying job because it didn't pay enough? Almost none of you. How many have walked away from other jobs because they didn't pay enough? Probably more than 90% of you at some time.

We are the problem in this equation. Remember, it is the responsibility of Management to ensure the airline makes a profit, not provide us jobs or pay more for our service than they actually need to. It is the same way with every other industry. That doesn't make them greedy, it just means that their focus, or mission, is different than ours.

So realistically, what do you do? I have decided, at least for now, that I am not going to take a job with a regional airline. I make more than most regional pilots and I am home almost every night. I fly good equipment and go to a variety of airports, not just the ones with Commercial service. I don't sit around complaining about the fact that I can't live on my regional airline pilot pay, I just don't accept the pay.

If AirTran, Delta, Southwest, or American called, I would probably go, because the opportunity would probably be worth taking the risk. If they don't, I'll just continue to do what I've been doing and be grateful that I get to fly almost every day and make a decent living doing it.