At Mesa, if you are over 40, you must hold a first class medical CA or F/O. Straight out of our ops manual.

You should take any complaints that you have with moderation to the admins.

USMCFLYR

Conspiracy Theories
 

I don't think somebody was out to "get me". I really liked working for SkyWest, and I think I did my job well.

But, I will say that I felt pretty d*mn stupid for some of my cheer leading for this company. I honestly thought that I would be trained to succeed; taken care of, like you would a family member. Would you kick out your son out of your life if he failed a class in school, and banish him from ever coming back? Of course not, but at SkW, it truly is a business... a really BIG business.

I felt stupid for the times I volunteered (at the last minute, as line holder) to get the company out of a bind and fly trips on my days off (when they ran out of reserves last summer, I actually commuted from SoCal to SLC to do the Helena overnight).

I felt REALLY stupid when I got the bill for my hotel in SLC on the day I got canned. The company really should pay for that, even for SLC based folks. By the way, the total was $1500.

I felt stupid that I got no per diem while at training, while everybody else raked it in, because I was SLC based and training in SLC.

I felt stupid that I put myself in a situation where this absolute no account airplane was able to tube me so severely. By "no account", I mean that I will never have to check out in this plane in the future, unlike a Boeing or Airbus or Bombardier, or perhaps E-jet. There was very little to be gained (captain/PIC time) with EVERYTHING to lose.

I felt stupid that I didn't get my ATP, and that my 24 months on the written will time out shortly. Not to mention that whoever I eventually will do an ATP with, I'll get to explain to them how I busted that ride last time.

I felt stupid that I handed out buddy passes to my brother and and a friend, and literally got a call a few days after I got canned saying, "hey, it's 6am here (which means it was 5am at my house) and they're saying this ticket is no good". Nice to explain that.

I feel stupid every time I get to crawl on a SkyWest flight to travel... of course, I now have to pay for the privilege.

I feel stupid that I can't jumpseat, even if I do work for a foreign airline.

I feel stupid that I couldn't get an interview at the lowest respect airlines this country has.

I feel stupid, and guilty, that for me to continue in this business means that my 6 and 8 year old kids will not see me much.

I never said, or even suggested, that those weren't valid questions. I was pointing out that I got them wrong. Virtually all wrong... I listed them in the same order they were asked.

Further, this guy had been an examiner on the EMB-120 for quite some time. He knows what questions folks don't know. The "push to test" light near the brake handle is not in the Embraer manuals. It wasn't covered in class (to my knowledge). So, my references would not have helped.

Same thing on the "50 feet MDA" theory. There's nothing in the regs that specify this. It's an interpretation of the regs.

For whatever reason, on a personal level, the examiner and I absolutely did not "click". The instructor I had in the sim had a pretty bad reputation as being a hard *ss, and I got along with him just fine. Same situation in the jet, I had a sim instructor with a colorful reputation. I had no problems. But, in both cases, my sim partners in both planes (CRJ and EMB) clashed with those same instructors, and both had training issues (one failed his final sim check, the other, as I mentioned, didn't get signed off for the sim check).

I've had a lot of "check rides" in my adult life. I worked at 3 separate ATC facilities, and checked out in each one. I passed the FAA Academy in OKC on the first try, which had a 50% washout rate at the time. In Oakland Center, to get area rated required something like 8 to 10 check rides over 3 to 5 years. I checked out where another 40% did not.

At SoCal approach, certification took 6 check rides over typically one to two years. And Camarillo tower required two check rides over less than a year. Plus, obviously passing all my pilot certificates, and the CRJ course. Miscellaneous other check outs, too.

I had laid out all my documents for the examiner. When he arrived, he commented favorably on that. I mentioned that I've done this checkout thing a few times in my life, and mentioned my ATC background. He said that he had wanted to be a controller (at one time) too.

It seemed we might develope some kind of rapport, and he went right into the questions. Of course, I'll never know, but I wonder if he was a former ATC washout. We had lots of 'em, and as a young guy, I was as arrogant as any 30 year old making almost 100k year (in the early 1990's). Could have been an issue.

I really hate thinking those thoughts, 'cuz it deflects from the reality. I failed where other succeeded. There were many, many factors. I can tell ya that 4am every morning was getting old. Doing ground in SLC, then FTD in FAT, and sim in LGB, all without any appreciable break was tough.

The pressure of knowing you were committed to either passing or being fired even affected the folks who breezed through the program (except for me and my sim partner, everybody else was under 30).

As you know Tony I strongly disagreed with you during the ALPA drive, but have nothing but the best wishes for you now. If it were me I would be investigating my legal recourse as the actions of one individual (I'm betting J.L.) have seriously compromised your career. I see several things that should have been flags for SKW. First I am surprised they would allow the same individual to evaluate you for two consecutive failures. Most professional programs would require you to be evaluated by two different examiners. Additionally I find it extremely arbitrary for the third strike to be a decision to not allow you to attempt to pass whatever event would come next. I for the life of me can not see how that constitutes a strike. It seems to me the company is in violation of their own policy. For the company to then not allow you to resign is incredible, but not really surprising.

I've been around the industry for a long time and the things I hear about some in the training department are very hard for me to process. It seems some who are in positions of power have no regard for the people who's lives are affected by their actions. They seem to take great pleasure in earning reputations for being "bust kings". Most of the oral questions from the examples you sited were completely bogus. If that type of question were asked by an examiner at my former airline it would be first and last time, after that the examiner would be back on the line. What you experienced was unreasonable and devastating to your future and for what? So someone can brag about another notch on their belt?

Maybe D.D. can give you the name of the lawyer who represented him.....

Tony,
It sucks what happened to you with SKW. Just sucks. No other word for it (at least not one that would make it past the mods;) ) I'm sure the last thing someone as proud as you wants is more pity. But for what its worth, I for one have read every word written here and will definitely be taking your lesson to heart. Best of luck to you in whatever you pursue in the future.

Ya know, I really thought about that. I was resigned to defeat, after such a brutal blow in the oral. I even told the guy that I didn't expect that he would pass me on the sim after the performance on the oral.

But, I agree. It should be company policy that the examiner is changed, not necessarily because he can't be impartial (heck, there's no pressure on him... just another day at the office), but it adds pressure on the trainee in an already amped up experience.




Not signing the trainee off for a retake is in SP-315 as a strike, so they did follow their policy. The policy, by the way, that is approved by SAPA, and that by my guess, at least half the SAPA reps would still support.

I will offer one super chicken sh*t response when I was told I wouldn't be given another oral or sim check ride. He actually said that the FAA would want to be there since it was a retake, and suggested somehow that was a problem for SkW, or him personally, or the man on the moon. I kinda felt like knocking the *sshole on his *sshole after that statement. He also offered a bunch of issues that I had previously in training as reasons, when I offered that I thought that was the purpose of training. The next check ride is where I need to shine.

I still can't really believe they didn't let me re-take, when the examiner was right there. I mean literally right there. Sitting in the same room, getting ready to give my sim partner his checkride. Since no other classes were planned, and there were two less people in our class than were originally planned for, there was no sim schedule issues. It was wide open, and my retake was actually scheduled for the next morning. My IOE was still scheduled.

I'm sure SkW EMB guys would know him. John XXX, San Diego based, short, kinda of loud voice for a short guy. He just got up, sorta grunted, and left the room. Never said jack squat... no good luck, hey, sorry to see that, let's see what we can do, not even goodbye. Real people person.




Perhaps. Not sure how much headache and money I'd want to expend to get a somewhat low paying job!!!

I spent almost two hours doing my upgrade oral about 5 years ago. Although I had flown the EMB, I decided to upgrade on the RJ. Out of the two hours spent on the oral we spent less than 5 minutes on aircraft systems. The entire oral was on the FOM, Op Specs, MX procedures, FARs, etc. At the end of the oral the examiner asked for some feedback. I told him how surprised I was that we had hardly talked about the aircraft. He responded by saying that we had learned the aircraft in class and in the sim, and that the stuff we had talked about was more related to being a Captain. I had similar questions as Tony and it had come as somewhat as a surprise.

I've been told that it comes down to one thing for the instructor/DE. Would I feel safe putting my family onboard your aircraft the day after you finish Captain IOE? You could answer all of the questions correctly and fly the sim and aircraft just fine and still not past that test.

I've recognized a few First Officers that can fly the aircraft just fine but I couldn't imagine them being in the Left Seat. Judgement, initiative and so on are lacking. We all know someone of this type. We've even had captains sent back to the right seat because of this.

I should add that I'm not saying that this applied to Tony.

Myself (and others) have. They never bother responding.

Not suggesting going the legal route to get the job back, rather to compensate you for the damage done to your career.