New rumor - RAH and Alaska Airline
10-25-2008, 06:19 AM
#61
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: E-170
Posts: 842
republic is being very aggresive in aquiring new flying but to call it the new mesa is crap. Our pay is equal to every one elses---except mesa's its alot better than that. We dont have junior manning, have more guranteed days off, have block or better, and properly staff an airline enough to allow it to run reliably. Yeah we are getting more flying while others are losing theirs but its not additional, its replacement flying to cover what we lost with F9.
10-25-2008, 06:34 AM
#62
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
10-25-2008, 09:18 AM
#63
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,982
I disagree. It's been proven time and time and time again.., that management in MANY airlines throught the history of comercial aviation does what it wants..., regardless of contract..., regardless of ethics..., most definately regardless of it's pilots opinion, wishes, or desires.., ie we have ZERO..., I'll say it again.., ZERO input as to what contracts, deals, or agreements our respective airline makes. Trust me when I say we, the RAH pilot group are no happier about the midwest deal thatn the midwest pilots. Did that change anything? nope, do you think if our vote actually counted in this, it would've happened at all? It sure didn't save me from getting furoughd so I'll squash that argument right now.
In fact I challenge anybody.., please come up with any example of how pilots at an airline participated in the management's decision making process with regard to contractual decisions. Not talking about greavances or injunctions or work actions.., I'm talking about actual vote counting decisions that it's pilots took part in while employed in a part 121 airline where a decision to enter into a contract involving future aircarrier operations. Short scope and CBA, I'd be willingto bet that that mechanism doesn't exist. We fly from point a to b and that folks is about ALL I can see we have control over. I could be way off base here with my "pilot's" soda straw perspective of the universe but I think I'm pretty close. Just something to consider when we vent misguided gripes at each other.
Now back to the Alaska and RAH discussion ; )
In fact I challenge anybody.., please come up with any example of how pilots at an airline participated in the management's decision making process with regard to contractual decisions. Not talking about greavances or injunctions or work actions.., I'm talking about actual vote counting decisions that it's pilots took part in while employed in a part 121 airline where a decision to enter into a contract involving future aircarrier operations. Short scope and CBA, I'd be willingto bet that that mechanism doesn't exist. We fly from point a to b and that folks is about ALL I can see we have control over. I could be way off base here with my "pilot's" soda straw perspective of the universe but I think I'm pretty close. Just something to consider when we vent misguided gripes at each other.
Now back to the Alaska and RAH discussion ; )
Now, you are correct in saying that management does not come to the pilots for a vote when making day to day decisions about the running of the airline...nor should they. Any company run in that manner would be the most inefficient and ineffective company in the market place. I am paid to fly, they are paid to manage...I knew that accepting the job. But there are ways for a pilot group to protect itself using contractual language and smart negotiations.
Sorry for the history lesson, I know it doesn't entirely apply to the topic. It just aggravates me when guys through up their hands and say "I just fly from A to B. I'm just a helpless pawn. I have no say." It is always worth raising a stink to protect your interests.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 10-25-2008 at 09:25 AM.
10-25-2008, 09:38 AM
#64
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 389
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
Last edited by Window_Seat; 10-25-2008 at 09:39 AM. Reason: speling
10-25-2008, 11:45 AM
#65
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: On the aluminum Arctic snow sled
Posts: 127
Honestly, I think most everyone in the industry realizes regional pilots have very little to do with the deals our companies make. That said, anytime you have a regional pilot gloating over new flying that came at the expense of a major or higher-paid regional with no regard for the larger consequences throughout the industry, it makes everyone else think "that's exactly the kind of person who'd gladly take a paycut for more growth."
Those happy that good things are happening at their company when it results in others' misfortune are best advised to keep their thoughts to themselves lest they be thought a douchebag.
Those happy that good things are happening at their company when it results in others' misfortune are best advised to keep their thoughts to themselves lest they be thought a douchebag.
10-25-2008, 03:50 PM
#66
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,075
10-25-2008, 06:15 PM
#67
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: E-190/175/170
Posts: 172
I agree. First the Midwest whipsaw, then bribing us airways for flying, and now a potential whipsaw on Horizon/ Alaska.
Republic is the new Mesa. These guys walk tall thinking they are a mainline pilot in their erj-170 because they take mainline jobs. Any republic pilot that agrees to fly whipsaw routes should be shunned.
I hear the excuse "we can't help what management makes us do". If Midwest pilots were on strike, would you still fly their routes? No, because if you did, you would be a scab. If it weren't for the current NMB cronies, Midwest pilots would be on strike for their contract be violated. So, anyone that agrees to do their flying is no better than a scab.
Republic pilots need to take a stand for what's right or face the scrutiny of their peers.
Republic is the new Mesa. These guys walk tall thinking they are a mainline pilot in their erj-170 because they take mainline jobs. Any republic pilot that agrees to fly whipsaw routes should be shunned.
I hear the excuse "we can't help what management makes us do". If Midwest pilots were on strike, would you still fly their routes? No, because if you did, you would be a scab. If it weren't for the current NMB cronies, Midwest pilots would be on strike for their contract be violated. So, anyone that agrees to do their flying is no better than a scab.
Republic pilots need to take a stand for what's right or face the scrutiny of their peers.
Were'nt we talking about RAH's scab flying of Alaska?
10-25-2008, 08:51 PM
#68
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 324
The way this thread is going I predict a big LOCK on it with a mod saying something like "name calling and flamebaiting, this thread is going nowhere (grow up you whinny ass boys)" happening very soon. Think you can save the thread by changing your tunes?
3.....2.....1.....
3.....2.....1.....
This thread should be locked. People need a scapegoat for the decline of the majors. This week the blame falls to RAH. I seriously feel like I'm reading a thread written by catty, menstrual, 15 year old girls the week before homecoming.
I'm a 1st year FO @ RAH, and have been on two of the three certificates. I have never seen any of our pilots walk around with an air of superiority. If you think any of us look down on any other airline, that's your own F'd up perception.
As for the Midwest issue, to all of the big talkers out there...Please tell me what to do. What can I at the bottom of my seniority list do to rectify the situation. I am open to any suggestions. If you have no constructive criticism, then maybe consider just saying nothing at all.
10-26-2008, 07:44 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 253
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
Armchair quarterbacks are the best. If PSA had 70-seat aircraft sitting around collecting dust and burning cash from the coffers, only to work out the same deal with Midwest, WWTPD? (What Would Texas Pilot Do?)
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09-10-2008 12:02 PM
