latest Pinnacle rumor
08-19-2008, 06:59 AM
#51
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
Look fella's,
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
Truman- I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but this is a pinnacle RUMOR thread. The things I have read on here have gone from 100% correct to utterly impossible. I understand ASA has had cutbacks, so has PNCL. We were supposed to have 16 full airframe lines up and running by january for DL- that has been pushed back. On the NWA side we have had flying slashed in MSP (due to compass and mesaba 76'ers coming online) and DTW and MEM have experienced cuts as well. Our september schedules across the board are looking to be just at guarantee (75ish hours) instead of 85-95 hours. We are taking the hits too. The fact that we are going into the winter schedules in addition to the fuel/reorganization/merger mania is just a recipe for the mess. I understand your frustrations for losing flying, but the ASA/PNCL mentality is the same at PNCL with the loss of our flying to mesaba's 900's and Compass Jungle jets. Problem with the mentality is ASA/PNCL/Compass/XJ/RAH/Comair/SKYw don't "own" any of the routes. We are ALL along for the ride. I can only expect this to be the "status quo" until the merger is complete, at which point the "new delta" execs will dangle some RFP's for the remainder of the available 70/76 seaters and try and pull more of the -200's out of the system.
08-19-2008, 07:00 AM
#52
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
-Larry the Cableguy
08-19-2008, 07:03 AM
#54
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: in a seat
Posts: 82
Look fella's,
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
the problem with ATL is many junior pilots are heading there, many right out of training. ATL has many senior pilots who have been through 9E flying being distributed amongst the NWA family and can respect the feelings of what is happening with the DCI carriers.
One day the junior guys will learn the respect that the DCI carriers deserve, until then.. just remember that excitement is only because the last job they probably had was High school and they have not matured yet to understand that additional flying for one carrier may mean someone else is losing that flying.
When 9E hires these guys, humility is not a requirement, only a pulse and the ignorance that they are now working for a company that see's it's pilot corp as "hired help" and not professionals.
08-19-2008, 07:14 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Flap Operator
Posts: 73
Look fella's,
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
08-19-2008, 07:30 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: in a seat
Posts: 82
I understand that it doesnt make you feel good reading other people having a happy thought about their job. (For Pinnacle guys this is rare indeed) But its a public forum and while your entitled to right "hey guys shut up, dont rub it in." you also have the right to STOP READING and go to another thread. Let us have fun celebrating a good rumor, we will undoubtedly be ****ed here in a couple of days when our negotiations turn sour once again. You are going stupid over a couple of guys smiling about a rumor that chances are completely untrue.
rumor or no rumor, those jets coming in Jan and next year for 9E is not all "new" flying, it is replacing someones flying. Jeez... is it really that hard to figure out?
Negotiations... I think our original negotiation committee said it best in '05 (when GB was chair), not until there is a change at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue will there be any change to our contract status with the NMB.
08-19-2008, 07:44 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 426
Look fella's,
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
Oh and by the way. Since we're talking feelings I'm sure Delta mainline pilots feel wonderful watching two DCI regionals squabble over flying they should never of had to begin with.
08-19-2008, 08:16 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Look fella's,
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
I'm not starting any war. My point is, you should watch the tone of your gleeful posts on how great it is that Pinnacle is growing for Delta in ATL, when ASA is shrinking. You may not think that you are taking any flying from ASA, or replacing ASA, but you are - if you get more flying. Hmmmm, ASA parks 12 planes permenantly, and Pinnacle talks about growing by what, 12 or so 900's??? Hey, great for you guys, but think about who is down and out while you are rejoicing. And don't act like you don't, or aren't all excited. You are. (Or some of you are) You are getting growth in ASA's only backyard, which means upgrades, more line, better schedules while ASA just announced downgrades. Line-holders are moving back to reserve, maybe furloughs, etc... So keep the "hey guys, allright! We're getting more planes and growth in ATL" - to a minimum while others are suffering because of it. Next, don't hide behind the whole "we don't decide where we fly, it's management." We all know this. It is in the excitement of your fortunes, while you have no consideration to others misfortunes.
yeah, but just like higney said i posted this under the pinnacle thread. for pinnacle pilots. i could see you being mad about my post if i had gone to an asa post and said what i said, but i didn't.
08-19-2008, 09:22 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: CA
Posts: 534
You know what...it does suck that pilots get jerked around with their former jobs being shipped off to other companies. Some say it's just business, but it's not. In business, if your job goes to a competitor, you at least have a shot at being hired somewhere else in a similar capacity. In aviation, you start over at the bottom regardless of experience. I think it's our fault for not evolving with the changing times. We should have some system in place to make sure we are unified and that there are negligable benefits for airlines swapping planes/routes to other companies. A minimum pay/national sen. list/ something to unify all pilots across companies moreso than alpa does now. It should include all Airline pilots...maybe all ATP's after recieveing their liscense, they are inducted...Someone with more qual's and passion for it than I can figure this out. Until we are all unifed, we will be split like this. It does suck to be the other company losing flying and hearing about another benefiting from your jobs lost
08-19-2008, 12:31 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Zee Airboos
Posts: 404
You know what...it does suck that pilots get jerked around with their former jobs being shipped off to other companies. Some say it's just business, but it's not. In business, if your job goes to a competitor, you at least have a shot at being hired somewhere else in a similar capacity. In aviation, you start over at the bottom regardless of experience. I think it's our fault for not evolving with the changing times. We should have some system in place to make sure we are unified and that there are negligable benefits for airlines swapping planes/routes to other companies. A minimum pay/national sen. list/ something to unify all pilots across companies moreso than alpa does now. It should include all Airline pilots...maybe all ATP's after recieveing their liscense, they are inducted...Someone with more qual's and passion for it than I can figure this out. Until we are all unifed, we will be split like this. It does suck to be the other company losing flying and hearing about another benefiting from your jobs lost
A national seniority list would also unify the pilot groups. Lets say Pinnacle is about to go on strike. If they strike, every single plane operated by pilots on this national seniority list is grounded. Every single damn one of them. Imagine working for a union with that kind of power. The days of 5,6,7 year contract negotiations would be over. No longer would you have to be tied to one airline for the rest of your life. Too bad this is just a pipe dream. The infighting between carriers will always exist unless someone does something to change it.
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