FLflyer

When you say "you will upgrade on the equipment your seniority holds" are you referring to where you are based and the equipment they are using? So for instance, If I hold seniority at SBY and they still are using the dash I upgrade in the dash? What happens to the dash Capt's when they phase them all out. Do they sit right seat in the 145?

Lvlng4Spd

Most would then be 145 Captains, but a lot of us will wait as long as possible or flow before that. This gives folks with lower seniority the chance to upgrade in the jet. Take me for example...I don't necessarily care if I go to the jet...I'd rather stay a Dash CA until I flow if I can. Now understand that this means there could be longer reserve stints for those of low seniority who upgrade to the jet. When the holdouts above you move to that equipment, they have higher seniority and will get the hard lines.

FLflyer

Thanks for clarifying that. As far as the flow goes, is it solely based on how long you have been with the company, regardless of equipment and whether you are a CA or FO?

Lvlng4Spd

Yes, any equipment or position it is all by seniority. We have some long term FO's who can flow right now if they want to. I believe the only limit is 1 year in position and no active disciplinary action in your file. So, if you are a new hire or you upgrade you can't flow for a year after...other than that just be diligent and a professional and off you go when it's your turn. Your seniority at PDT is held when you flow in case you have trouble in training or need to withdraw...you can come back if you have to and keep your old position/seniority. The big thing is that American has to keep hiring to accept flows...which they should to cover the retirements.

FLflyer

Yeah from what I have seen, they will need about 7,000 pilots in the next 10 years or so just to cover mandatory retirements.

buddies8

Like it or not AA has a 20 percent reduction coming its way starting late 2016. But 7000 minus 1400 still will need 5600 over ten years, that's 560 per year.

Wink

Can someone explain how the flow actually works? How do they determine how many get to flow each month or year?

billyho

Class of 40 every two weeks? Doesn't sound like a reduction for new hires.

FLflyer

So I've been running some numbers and this upgrade time which I have been told from multiple people is currently 1-1.4yrs doesn't seem to jive. I was told there are approximately 160 pilots at PDT opting not to flow. Just hanging out waiting to retire. It would have to shrink if it's only 20 145's and all the dash's are gone by 17. Unless of course ultimately they bring more 145's on board. With 160 just hanging around it seems there is a lot less potential for senior FO's to move up the ladder. I just don't want to be stuck as an FO forever, I can wait 5-7 on the flow but not on minimum wage. What kind of attrition numbers are you guys seeing on average, upgrades, and flow throughs a month? Any truth to the 160 lifers? I know there is no way to know the future but I'd be curious if anyone has some current numbers. Also, I have been told the flow agreement with American is good for the next 10 years, is there a contract between the two confirming this?

superuomo32

Closer to 60 who are not flowing. We do lose a bunch of Dash's but not all of them in 17. Lastly, our president wants to grow the ERJ indefinitely. How many that is all depends on staffing. I hear 40 up to 160!? But the movement will continue. Upgrade will stay at a year for those with the time for awhile. Good luck!