JohnGardner

by the way, maybe one day you will let me know who you are so i will know how you "know" what i say "off the internet".

Slick111

The interesting thing is that the more management tries to make envoy pilots knuckle under,....the more pilots they are losing,.....(they are losing the cheaper new first officers and newer captains),....they higher envoy's cost climb.

buddies8

All part of aag Walmart management's plan. Infect as many airlines as possible with envoy pilots. They just cannot run an airline whether mainline or regional. Fear is the only weapon, positive ideas is foreign to them.

Bzzt

It's a death spiral now, I don't think it was management's intention initially and I don't think the pilots wanted it, but an unfortunate chain of events has pushed Envoy over the edge.

Management wanted a cost structure that the MEC and 70% of the pilots didn't support, the subsequent stagnation and shrinkage causes pilots to bail. As pilots leave the cost at Envoy creeps higher and the work force dwindles. This makes it so there is less reason for management to place resources here, causing more people to leave. I don't believe there is a way out of the situation Envoy is now in.

John, I don't know exactly what a union is supposed to do I guess, but one of the fundamental tenets was to secure jobs, or at least that is what I thought. We are now losing jobs, working under a substandard bankruptcy contract. I know the BK contract was not this regime's fault but the loss of jobs certainly is. How you or anyone else could portray this MEC's tenure as anything other than an abject failure is beyond me.

I'm done, this is PDT's thread, my views are widely known. I hope the childish attack dogs and "industry upholders" like buddies8 bow out as well. Good luck guys, do what's best for you in the end you're the only one looking out for yourself.

What

AAG management has 2,200+ reason to not just dump Envoy. 10% of the Envoy pilot group is 18 yr pay scale and lifers, our of the other 90%, only about 10% are thinking about staying right now while everyone else is looking for a flow or a way out. Keep believing your cost are so high, go read the PDT contract and get back to me. Management could/can achieve 12/4 organically at Envoy, but it's more than just the cost or preparing for bad times. It's about control over you! It's about who is the boss.

tom11011

Not to discredit any Envoy pilot who loses their job as a result of Envoy folding, but a large regional like Envoy folding is not the worst thing in the world for the regional pilot group as a whole. That flying is going to have to be absorbed into the system and maybe some of it will be picked up by American where it belongs anyway.

It's not as easy as it appears for Envoy to just fold up. Many pilots are going to be lost forever, they can't or won't come back to airline flying. It makes a shortage of pilots even worse.

dash8

sce, abe, lga, isp, jst, bgm, rdg(i believe, not sure), syr (yeah i know he already said it, but it closed twice)

N927EV

Absorbed into AA? If only. AA now has 11 feeders flying under the "American eagle" brand. They would more than likely spread the flying across the board. Plus, where do you think 2200 pilots are going to go? Most would have to go to other regionals. And more than likely, they'd end up flying Eagle paint again.
So yeah, envoy folding is kind of a big deal to 2200 of us.

meah

I have mixed feelings about this. I used to work at PDT. It is sad seeing them be used at the 23:59hr to take a 4/12 or whatever. Also sad to see another pilot group that represents 2% of the regional group deciding pay rates for the next decade. I do care about the lifers but feel they are not going to flow. PSA has screwed PDT so hard in the past. Do what is best for you guys, the game is over anyways.

BSOuthisplace

My take after reading the language of this TA.

Pros:

-Flow (especially for those who want to go to a legacy carrier but couldn't because either they didn't have a college degree or didn't fit the BS hiring profile)
- There's some commitment to a future by AAG for PDT pilots
- mods to CBA only happen with jets, we get flow from DOS regardless
Cons:

-Pay scales are cut and paste of PSA large RJ rates
-Pay caps at 12/4 with no grandfathering scales for jets, only for the dash which won't be around in 3-4 years anyway
-healthcare rates jacked up
-vacation goes to 4.2 hrs per day instead of pay for dropped trip, in most cases you will lose a few hours of pay per slot over this.
-sick acrual 3.5 per month instead of 4
-the fact we are doing the opposite of stopping the whipsaw and piling on damage done to the regional industry by the likes of PSA, Endeavor, GoJets, Republic and the likes.
-the chance that AAG will transfer Envoy a/c (145s) to piedmont in the interim
of 175 deliveries to get us started on our CBA mods and to get jets on the operating cert.

That said, I'm fairly confident this TA will pass with over 70% in favor.