Delta Terminates Xjt......sept 1, 2008
07-04-2008, 12:56 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Stage Left
Posts: 366
"I can see what you are saying- a little confusion with multiple lists and such. I do NOT think the "New Delta" will be able to get by with only Comair, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why not? If the Delta / NWA pilots get management to agree on scope that includes ONLY two regionals, this is exactly what would happen. I agree that this probably won't happen but it should. If it doesn't, it would further entice labor issues at the regionals. Now is the perfect time to get on board for the combined Delta / NWA pilots.
Why not? If the Delta / NWA pilots get management to agree on scope that includes ONLY two regionals, this is exactly what would happen. I agree that this probably won't happen but it should. If it doesn't, it would further entice labor issues at the regionals. Now is the perfect time to get on board for the combined Delta / NWA pilots.
07-04-2008, 01:04 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
It was inevitable, all the flights that I jumped on were mostly empty, including the short flights. I also heard from a buddy that the Mexico flights weren't any better. You can't make any money with 25 Pax on a 145 It's unfortunate, DAL XJ really had the best service, unfortunately service doesn't go with profits these days.
I don't know who your "buddy" is, but Mexico is ALWAYS full. Doesn't matter if it's a tourist spot MZT,LTO, or ZLO, nor the other places like Torreon, Zacatecas, or Leon. Full of people and all their bags.
what a crazy industry.
07-04-2008, 03:44 PM
#86
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Posts: 91
07-04-2008, 08:01 PM
#87
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 88
Not really sure what flights you were on. But A LOT of the flights I've flown, especially in the last 2 months were full.
I don't know who your "buddy" is, but Mexico is ALWAYS full. Doesn't matter if it's a tourist spot MZT,LTO, or ZLO, nor the other places like Torreon, Zacatecas, or Leon. Full of people and all their bags.
I don't know who your "buddy" is, but Mexico is ALWAYS full. Doesn't matter if it's a tourist spot MZT,LTO, or ZLO, nor the other places like Torreon, Zacatecas, or Leon. Full of people and all their bags.
--ditto...I went to Mexico this SUMMER...and the flights was full...there and back.
07-04-2008, 08:29 PM
#88
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,573
"I can see what you are saying- a little confusion with multiple lists and such. I do NOT think the "New Delta" will be able to get by with only Comair, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why not? If the Delta / NWA pilots get management to agree on scope that includes ONLY two regionals, this is exactly what would happen. I agree that this probably won't happen but it should. If it doesn't, it would further entice labor issues at the regionals. Now is the perfect time to get on board for the combined Delta / NWA pilots.
Why not? If the Delta / NWA pilots get management to agree on scope that includes ONLY two regionals, this is exactly what would happen. I agree that this probably won't happen but it should. If it doesn't, it would further entice labor issues at the regionals. Now is the perfect time to get on board for the combined Delta / NWA pilots.
1. Too many contracts that have merger clauses that are strong.
2. I cannot see how the DL/NWA pilot group would sign off on Scope to have more RJ's "officially" on property (wholly owned) than mainline jets without mainline guys/gals flying them.
In the future (the next big industry cycle) maybe, but not in the next 5 years post merger. While I am sure you will argue and anyone would IF they worked for Mesaba, Compass, or Comair. We can all hope "our" regional succeeds but by expanding the regionals more (instead of keeping them limited) all we do is short change our careers into staying at regionals. The next thing we will have is 110 seat RJ's that will get dangled like a carrot. The beauty of a scope clause is it keeps competition and with growth allows for upward movement. When the next "cycle" comes around we will see larger jets that will be above the 70/74 seat scope clauses that will allow for us to all eventually move up to the "majors". Allowing regionals to grow as "wholly owned" will keep you in the regionals.
Example- American Eagle.
Just my thoughts in the van on reduced rest after a divert. night night!
07-04-2008, 11:01 PM
#89
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
07-05-2008, 06:01 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Stage Left
Posts: 366
"Two reasons.
1. Too many contracts that have merger clauses that are strong.
I agree but it is not out of the question to "set the table" now for the not so distant future. Thinking one contract down the road is the norm and might as well add job / pay protection to the top of the list going forward.
2. I cannot see how the DL/NWA pilot group would sign off on Scope to have more RJ's "officially" on property (wholly owned) than mainline jets without mainline guys/gals flying them. "
They wouldn't and shouldn't. Only 200 70-76 seaters are allowed now. UNFORTUNATELY, about 8 airlines fly those 200. Now Anderson is shrinking the herd on his own behalf right now but the combined MEC needs to keep going with it. The only, perceived, loser in doing this is management. No more scope relief, just 2 regionals flying what 8 currently does.
I agree, we don't need more scope / jets at the regionals. However, since they are here, limit management to how they get to use them and have flow through agreements with both.
"In the future (the next big industry cycle) maybe, but not in the next 5 years post merger. "
This CAN happen if the combined MEC goes to bat for the industry like they should.
"While I am sure you will argue and anyone would IF they worked for Mesaba, Compass, or Comair. We can all hope "our" regional succeeds but by expanding the regionals more (instead of keeping them limited) all we do is short change our careers into staying at regionals."
Nope, keep scope the same just way fewer whipsaw opportunities allowed. I have a feeling that this will work itself out over time anyway. 5-8 years ago, investors were climbing all over each other to get in on the regional game. Hell, USAir got out of bankruptcy TWICE because it found people way too eager to throw money out the window. It's a different time now and I don't see the money coming into the industry anymore. Ornstien is smoking something fierce if he thinks he can sell 50 mil. of Mesa stock in this upcoming offering (if the SEC allows it in the first place).
"The next thing we will have is 110 seat RJ's that will get dangled like a carrot. The beauty of a scope clause is it keeps competition and with growth allows for upward movement. When the next "cycle" comes around we will see larger jets that will be above the 70/74 seat scope clauses that will allow for us to all eventually move up to the "majors". Allowing regionals to grow as "wholly owned" will keep you in the regionals."
This will not happen. Legacy's will burn the place before seats are gained on regional aircraft.
Good conversation.
1. Too many contracts that have merger clauses that are strong.
I agree but it is not out of the question to "set the table" now for the not so distant future. Thinking one contract down the road is the norm and might as well add job / pay protection to the top of the list going forward.
2. I cannot see how the DL/NWA pilot group would sign off on Scope to have more RJ's "officially" on property (wholly owned) than mainline jets without mainline guys/gals flying them. "
They wouldn't and shouldn't. Only 200 70-76 seaters are allowed now. UNFORTUNATELY, about 8 airlines fly those 200. Now Anderson is shrinking the herd on his own behalf right now but the combined MEC needs to keep going with it. The only, perceived, loser in doing this is management. No more scope relief, just 2 regionals flying what 8 currently does.
I agree, we don't need more scope / jets at the regionals. However, since they are here, limit management to how they get to use them and have flow through agreements with both.
"In the future (the next big industry cycle) maybe, but not in the next 5 years post merger. "
This CAN happen if the combined MEC goes to bat for the industry like they should.
"While I am sure you will argue and anyone would IF they worked for Mesaba, Compass, or Comair. We can all hope "our" regional succeeds but by expanding the regionals more (instead of keeping them limited) all we do is short change our careers into staying at regionals."
Nope, keep scope the same just way fewer whipsaw opportunities allowed. I have a feeling that this will work itself out over time anyway. 5-8 years ago, investors were climbing all over each other to get in on the regional game. Hell, USAir got out of bankruptcy TWICE because it found people way too eager to throw money out the window. It's a different time now and I don't see the money coming into the industry anymore. Ornstien is smoking something fierce if he thinks he can sell 50 mil. of Mesa stock in this upcoming offering (if the SEC allows it in the first place).
"The next thing we will have is 110 seat RJ's that will get dangled like a carrot. The beauty of a scope clause is it keeps competition and with growth allows for upward movement. When the next "cycle" comes around we will see larger jets that will be above the 70/74 seat scope clauses that will allow for us to all eventually move up to the "majors". Allowing regionals to grow as "wholly owned" will keep you in the regionals."
This will not happen. Legacy's will burn the place before seats are gained on regional aircraft.
Good conversation.
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