ExperimentalAB

Definately more mainline jumpers on UAX than vice-versa. We go all everywhere "podunk...," some of which happen to be nice places to live, as opposed to most hubs.

Oh, and short bus...don't go knocking anybody about ALPA or not. Remember, it was UALPA's MEC that changed the JS boarding priority. Way to stick up for their chicken little brothers, eh?

Utah

Someone was saying this would effect Express pilots more than mainline...

We get this little update every week at SkyWest with system performance of UAL and all of the Express carriers. It shows that UAL has 1475 daily departures and the Express carriers have a total of 1890. I'd imagine that many of the UA departures are Intl and don't have a lot of pilots jumpseating to work. It would seem that at this point a good 60% of domestic flights are on Express, and many of the cities they serve mainline doesn't. Next year the number of mainline departures will surely be down significantly with the parking of 100 aircraft, while Express operations are expected to increase.

I'd imagine this will effect the mainline pilots more than the Express pilots.

JetJock16

Funny how this one simple fact keeps getting left out. Everyone also needs to know that SKW Mgmnt has told UAL that they will FULLY REMBURSE them for all cost associated with the rewrite.

paxhauler85

I try to be as helpful as I can when it comes to JS'ers, but during a 30 minute turn, I have to tend to my job duties and my own physiological needs.

That is, printing the release (not on our acars machine, for the UAL mainline guys), doing a walk around, hitting the head, and getting something to eat.

Sometimes there's not any time in there to sort out a jumpseat dispute, that is, if the CSA even tells you about it.

My goal is to never knowingly leave anyone behind, and so far I haven't. Now I worry about the people who have been turned away before I had the chance to talk to them.

For the record, I love the UAL guys. They have always been great to me, one even gave up his jumpseat on Dec. 23 so that I could make it to work after missing 7 previous flights.

I am forever indebted to him, and in fact owe the next Marine I meet a nights worth of drinks, at his request. I'll be more than happy to oblige.

Someone else said it before, but don't let a small percentage of our (UAX) pilots speak for the rest of us against our will. UAL guys are always welcome, and if you can, help us sort this out.

ryguy

I care because this is an open internet message board and I have an opinion. I'm HKAOA which is affiliated with IFALPA, I was also ALPA for 8 years. The reason I mention the threats is because it seems to me that their letter is out of frustration. The UAL letter sounds like daddy scolding the kids for having the audacity to stand up for themselves.

Like I said, I don't think this would have gotten to this point had some honesty been practiced at the gate in the first place. As a former regional guy that didn't suddenly think I came out of the womb with a 747 type, I have seen this behavior from mainline pilots before. The "I'm more important than you" attitude. This whole thing has the stink of that attitude all over it.

FlyJSH

(I have no dog in this fight)

The reality is a CA often has little if any time to correct a computer glitch between flights. If all pilots (in this case UAL) would do the right thing ("your plane, you go" or "I'm just going home to see Mom, delist me") then there would be no fight. However, there are SOME UALs that say tought t-bone. (Not all mind you). But, for me, my getting home is less important that my brother getting to work. I have given, and will continue, to give up my seat for someone who NEEDS it. Yeah, I want to get home, but getting to work is more important. And I hope others have the same sentiment.

By the way, I have given up my seat for folks going to work, and while dead heading, worked with crew scheduling to get seats for guys who would have missed ships movements (for those who don't know, that is being AWOL in the Navy).

Forget what the computer says: do the right thing! My guess is if everyone (UAL pilots in this case) agreed to do the right thing regardless of the what the computer says, life would be good.

Groundhog

I commute on UAX, but I rarely jumpseat. If I'm on the airplane, I've listed as a non-rev, and I'm using my employee benefits. The only time I'm looking for a jumpseat is if the flight is full, and then it 50/50 as to whether or not I'm getting on because of weight restrictions.

Any change that was made by UAL ALPA in regards to JS priority was to mirror what was offered by each of the UAX carriers. Don't assume that mainline priority is the same for all express companies. For some, the order of priority is:
1. Company pilot.
2. UAL mainline
3. Other UAX pilots
4. All others

For others, the order of priority is:
1. Company pilot.
2. UAL mainline/UAX pilot in first come first serve order.
3. All others.

For still others, the order of priority is:
1. Company pilot.
2. All others. (No priority for UAL mainline or UAX.)

My guess is that most of you thought the JS agreements between UAL and their UAX partners would be homogeneous. They're not.

So now UAL ALPA is supposed to hold managements' feet to the fire to get the computer logic implemented.
I forgot. SkyWest was going to pay for it. Was SkyWest going to pay for the Mesa logic? No, probably not. But then, I wouldn't expect them to.

For what its worth, the United pilots are not the enemy. A lot of us do commute, and we understand the frustration associated with it. I've personally been bumped by a WN jumpseater on a SkyWest flight that was handled by a SkyWest CSR. I got my seat, and I got it the same way most of these issues should be handled: by talking to the Captain.
The letter itself was bad form. The folks responsible for it will no doubt pat themselves on the back and claim victory. But in the end, the solution will be found by the same it should have been handled in the first place, and that is through the JS Committees of each airline.
(If you have a JS problem on UAL mainline, contact your JS committee and let them work the problem for you. If you can't get down to talk to the Captain, contact your JS committee and let them work the problem for you. Your JS committee is there for exactly this reason. This is how the problem should have been addressed to begin with.)

One last comment. For all of you UAX jumpseaters that jump on mainline, please remember to check in with the Captain. I know most of you do. But there are some who figure that if the CSR gave them a seat in the back (using their JS authority), there's no need to see the Captain. Not true. Jumpseat privileges are jumpseat privileges. It is still at the discretion of the Captain.


Hog

HercDriver130

Hog....respectfully..... i believe our JS committees HAVE been talking to your Union and UAL mgt for 2 freaking years about this problem... just how long are we to endure this BS....... I agree the letter is bad form..... but guess what it got the attention of some people didnt it.....

I personally dont buy the UAL MEC's assertion of it will take money to fix this.... having in one of my previous lives been in software AND my better half has been doing it for over 20 years we are not talking alot of money to something like this in all likely hood. If UAL is allowed to use that excuse this will never get fixed in the system EVER.

gettinbumped

Herc,

For what its worth.... I really wish that the UAX JS Committee had distributed this letter to the UAL pilots before the threat of denial had been issued. I keep hearing that this issue has been going on for 2 years, but I as a UAL pilot had not heard about it until now. Basic human nature is that people don't like to be threatened or terrorized. I would have worked much harder to help the UAX pilots solve the issue had I been made aware of it without the threat than I will now. It's going to be interesting to see what happens. The one thing that I DO know is that UAL management is exceptionally good at one thing; making life miserable for its employees. I fear that this UAX tactic will share that experience with you all.

Best of luck to us all. Again, I wish I had known about this a little sooner.

dojetdriver

There's not a way to put this well, and it's not an attack on you. But this doesn't surprise me.

Remember the pre CASS days? When if you worked for the express/connection/airlink partner you could ride in the front of the aircraft because your status could be electronically verified via the reservations system? Pending the CA's permission, of course. I can't tell you how many times I would walk up to cockpit, ID in hand (like always), medical and certificate out (like always) and stick out my hand to shake theirs (like always) and introduce myself, ask how the guys are doing, and ask if I can get permission to ride the JS to get home/to work.

First thing out of the guys mouth, "you're offline, can't take any offline guys, sorry" I'd always politely say that I'm UAX, have a K on my pass. "sorry, I don't know anything about that".

After contacting my JS guy, it got to the point where I had the SPECIFIC FOM page reference where it said "K" JS priority riders (UAX) were allowed to ride in the front. With the CA's permission, of course.

To tell you the truth, it got flat out annoying. I would have to politely ask if he could look in his FOM, please. Which is an uncomfortable position to be in, asking a guy to pull out his book. Guys would get out the book, go to the page where it CLEARLY spells out the JS priority, as well as who can ride in the front. Sure enough, go down to "K" and it lists the specific carriers. Some guys would stare at the page, ask me who I worked for again, ask to see my ID again. Then say, "well, thats news to me". I would always follow up with the "thanks for looking, I appreciate it. You guys can ride on our seats anytime". I WAS always appreciative of the ride, just didn't like how much work it could be. And no, other guys at my company as well as OTHER UAX carriers I knew were running into the same problem.

Like I said, I'm NOT being critical of you, or OTHER UAL pilots. Lots of guys at (insert airline here) tend to not fully know their carriers policies. I believed you referenced you were a commuter, so again, doesn't specifically apply to you. Not always the case, but usually a commuter is more savvy than a non commuter.