Need advice
06-19-2008, 07:57 AM
#71
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: C-172 / SH-60B (Rescue Swimmer)
Posts: 28
1. FO pay...approximate numbers, depends on how much flying is available and how much you want to work.
- Year 1: $25K.
- Year 2: $40K.
- Year 3+ $45K.
- Assuming upgrade at year 4: $75K.
2. SKW has some of the best workrules in the regional industry, they are too numerous to list but if you specefic questions, throw them out...
3. An internal rec will help you get an interview...most folks who interview have one. You still have to pass the interview...I did not find it execeedingly difficult, but it was thorough. You must be prepared, and sim practice is recommended.
4. 900 hours in 9 months is asking a lot unless you have unlimited cash or a good instructor job. It's possible, but I'd say 12-18 months conservative.
Also be aware that they will like the fact that you were in the military. But they will not care about the details unless you were a winged aviator, so don't make too much of that. Non-pilot crew time is meaningless in airline-land.
Good Luck.
- Year 1: $25K.
- Year 2: $40K.
- Year 3+ $45K.
- Assuming upgrade at year 4: $75K.
2. SKW has some of the best workrules in the regional industry, they are too numerous to list but if you specefic questions, throw them out...
3. An internal rec will help you get an interview...most folks who interview have one. You still have to pass the interview...I did not find it execeedingly difficult, but it was thorough. You must be prepared, and sim practice is recommended.
4. 900 hours in 9 months is asking a lot unless you have unlimited cash or a good instructor job. It's possible, but I'd say 12-18 months conservative.
Also be aware that they will like the fact that you were in the military. But they will not care about the details unless you were a winged aviator, so don't make too much of that. Non-pilot crew time is meaningless in airline-land.
Good Luck.
Couple more questions:
1. Is per diem taxable?
2. Does SKW pay on duty, trip, or hourly rig?
3. If someone were to commute, what would a typical work week be like? (such as- when would they fly to their base airport in relation to when their duty starts, hotel stays...etc)
4. Does the airline pay for the hotels during overnight stays? If so, are they double or single occupancy?
5. When does the per diem clock start ticking? I've heard that it starts any time that your away from your base airport and only when you will have an overnight stay...but does that mean it starts when the plane is pushed from the gate, or upon reaching your destination?
Sorry to bombard everyone w/ questions- but your replies are a big help to me in understanding what I'll be doing.
06-19-2008, 08:19 AM
#73
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CRJ F/O
Posts: 38
Wow- thanks for the specific info. It is definately an industry that I want to keep working at. I am ready for a change, even if it means a paycut. Sick of flying in the back, even though it is quite fun every now and then.
Couple more questions:
1. Is per diem taxable?
2. Does SKW pay on duty, trip, or hourly rig?
3. If someone were to commute, what would a typical work week be like? (such as- when would they fly to their base airport in relation to when their duty starts, hotel stays...etc)
4. Does the airline pay for the hotels during overnight stays? If so, are they double or single occupancy?
5. When does the per diem clock start ticking? I've heard that it starts any time that your away from your base airport and only when you will have an overnight stay...but does that mean it starts when the plane is pushed from the gate, or upon reaching your destination?
Sorry to bombard everyone w/ questions- but your replies are a big help to me in understanding what I'll be doing.
Couple more questions:
1. Is per diem taxable?
2. Does SKW pay on duty, trip, or hourly rig?
3. If someone were to commute, what would a typical work week be like? (such as- when would they fly to their base airport in relation to when their duty starts, hotel stays...etc)
4. Does the airline pay for the hotels during overnight stays? If so, are they double or single occupancy?
5. When does the per diem clock start ticking? I've heard that it starts any time that your away from your base airport and only when you will have an overnight stay...but does that mean it starts when the plane is pushed from the gate, or upon reaching your destination?
Sorry to bombard everyone w/ questions- but your replies are a big help to me in understanding what I'll be doing.
1.Per diem is not taxable
2. You get paid from the time the door closes to the time it opens...and if your away from base you get your per diem no matter what.
3. Depending on your line..you might commute in the day of the trip and commute home after the last flight of your trip. If its an early morning show you might have to come in the night b4 and do a crashpad or hotel, and the same if your trip comes in late.
4. Paid for by the comapny at single occupancy
5. Perdiem is paid from the time the door closes on the first leg of your trip untill the door opens on the last leg of our trip. So departure time is 6pm on monday....you get back to base on thursday at 6pm. 72 hors pewr diem..and poly somehwhere around 15 hours of flying.
06-19-2008, 08:39 AM
#74
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
Wow- thanks for the specific info. It is definately an industry that I want to keep working at. I am ready for a change, even if it means a paycut. Sick of flying in the back, even though it is quite fun every now and then.
Couple more questions:
1. Is per diem taxable?
2. Does SKW pay on duty, trip, or hourly rig?
3. If someone were to commute, what would a typical work week be like? (such as- when would they fly to their base airport in relation to when their duty starts, hotel stays...etc)
4. Does the airline pay for the hotels during overnight stays? If so, are they double or single occupancy?
5. When does the per diem clock start ticking? I've heard that it starts any time that your away from your base airport and only when you will have an overnight stay...but does that mean it starts when the plane is pushed from the gate, or upon reaching your destination?
Sorry to bombard everyone w/ questions- but your replies are a big help to me in understanding what I'll be doing.
Couple more questions:
1. Is per diem taxable?
2. Does SKW pay on duty, trip, or hourly rig?
3. If someone were to commute, what would a typical work week be like? (such as- when would they fly to their base airport in relation to when their duty starts, hotel stays...etc)
4. Does the airline pay for the hotels during overnight stays? If so, are they double or single occupancy?
5. When does the per diem clock start ticking? I've heard that it starts any time that your away from your base airport and only when you will have an overnight stay...but does that mean it starts when the plane is pushed from the gate, or upon reaching your destination?
Sorry to bombard everyone w/ questions- but your replies are a big help to me in understanding what I'll be doing.
1. It is not taxable on any given day as long as you had an extended break (5 hours ?) or an overnight away from your domicile. If you fly a "local" trip where you report in the morning, do some flying, and return to domicile at the end of the day your per diem for that day is taxable. Senior pilots who live in base tend to fly locals. Junior pilots and commuters tend to fly 2,3,4, or even 5 day trips.
2. Not sure what an hourly rig is but SKW pays as follows:
- Leg Credit: The greater of scheduled flight time or actual flight time (totaled up on a daily basis). Flight time in 121 is gate-to-gate so this includes ATC, Wx, and deicing delays as long as you are off the gate.
- Daily Guarantee: 3:45 hours for coming to work.
- Monthly Guarantee: 75 hours.
- No Trip Rig, this is covered by the daily guarantee.
- Duty Rig: 50%...so 12 hours duty will pay at least 6 hours regardless of how little you fly. If you go over 12 hours you get more (x1.5 IIRC)
3. I'm middle of the pack in my domicile, and I get 4-5 day trips which show early afternoon or later, and get done in time to catch the last flight home. The late shows give me to 2-3 options to get to work, so I'm not hanging it out every week (stressful). All 700/900 flying for me, just because the schedules work out better. A more junior commuter might get stuck doing a 3 day followed by a 2 day (or some other split trip combo), in which case he needs a hotel or crashpad for the break between trips. He might also get an early show or late release, which would necessitate coming in the night before or staying the night after the trip...again hotel/crashpad required. Junior FO's and flight attendants have been known to "camp out" in the crewroom to save money, but this does not seem to happen at SKW...it is probably frowned upon.
4. All US airlines (except mesa) provide a single occupancy hotel. At SKW they range from barely adequate to luxurious. Sometimes you get a great hotel downtown, other times it's eastern-block housing in the airport industrial park.
5. Per diem starts when you report for duty at your domicile (45 minutes prior to departure) and ends when released from duty in your domicile (15 minutse after arrival). It continues the whole time you're on the trip, even if you return to domicile and have a short or medium break in the middle. If you get legal rest (8+ hours) in domicile, then duty and per diem ends.
Most of the better regionals have similar or even better arrangements, but a few may have significant workrule gaps (pinnacle, colgan?) and mesa has no workrules other than per diem. At mesa you only get paid when they feel like paying you...pretty much their discretion.
Always happy to help out another navy swimmer
Last edited by rickair7777; 06-19-2008 at 08:44 AM.
06-19-2008, 07:51 PM
#75
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: C-172 / SH-60B (Rescue Swimmer)
Posts: 28
1.Per diem is not taxable
2. You get paid from the time the door closes to the time it opens...and if your away from base you get your per diem no matter what.
3. Depending on your line..you might commute in the day of the trip and commute home after the last flight of your trip. If its an early morning show you might have to come in the night b4 and do a crashpad or hotel, and the same if your trip comes in late.
4. Paid for by the comapny at single occupancy
5. Perdiem is paid from the time the door closes on the first leg of your trip untill the door opens on the last leg of our trip. So departure time is 6pm on monday....you get back to base on thursday at 6pm. 72 hors pewr diem..and poly somehwhere around 15 hours of flying.
2. You get paid from the time the door closes to the time it opens...and if your away from base you get your per diem no matter what.
3. Depending on your line..you might commute in the day of the trip and commute home after the last flight of your trip. If its an early morning show you might have to come in the night b4 and do a crashpad or hotel, and the same if your trip comes in late.
4. Paid for by the comapny at single occupancy
5. Perdiem is paid from the time the door closes on the first leg of your trip untill the door opens on the last leg of our trip. So departure time is 6pm on monday....you get back to base on thursday at 6pm. 72 hors pewr diem..and poly somehwhere around 15 hours of flying.
I understand that the hotel stays during duty are paid for...but what about while commuting? I imagine that the company does not fork out the individual's hotel bill, just curious.
Is there a realistic opportunity to have a side job during the first / second years as a new hire FO? Or, is the schedule so "up in the air" (literally) that it is impossible to hold another job?
06-19-2008, 08:11 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: C-172 / SH-60B (Rescue Swimmer)
Posts: 28
1. It is not taxable on any given day as long as you had an extended break (5 hours ?) or an overnight away from your domicile. If you fly a "local" trip where you report in the morning, do some flying, and return to domicile at the end of the day your per diem for that day is taxable. Senior pilots who live in base tend to fly locals. Junior pilots and commuters tend to fly 2,3,4, or even 5 day trips.
2. Not sure what an hourly rig is but SKW pays as follows:
- Leg Credit: The greater of scheduled flight time or actual flight time (totaled up on a daily basis). Flight time in 121 is gate-to-gate so this includes ATC, Wx, and deicing delays as long as you are off the gate.
- Daily Guarantee: 3:45 hours for coming to work.
- Monthly Guarantee: 75 hours.
- No Trip Rig, this is covered by the daily guarantee.
- Duty Rig: 50%...so 12 hours duty will pay at least 6 hours regardless of how little you fly. If you go over 12 hours you get more (x1.5 IIRC)
3. I'm middle of the pack in my domicile, and I get 4-5 day trips which show early afternoon or later, and get done in time to catch the last flight home. The late shows give me to 2-3 options to get to work, so I'm not hanging it out every week (stressful). All 700/900 flying for me, just because the schedules work out better. A more junior commuter might get stuck doing a 3 day followed by a 2 day (or some other split trip combo), in which case he needs a hotel or crashpad for the break between trips. He might also get an early show or late release, which would necessitate coming in the night before or staying the night after the trip...again hotel/crashpad required. Junior FO's and flight attendants have been known to "camp out" in the crewroom to save money, but this does not seem to happen at SKW...it is probably frowned upon.
4. All US airlines (except mesa) provide a single occupancy hotel. At SKW they range from barely adequate to luxurious. Sometimes you get a great hotel downtown, other times it's eastern-block housing in the airport industrial park.
5. Per diem starts when you report for duty at your domicile (45 minutes prior to departure) and ends when released from duty in your domicile (15 minutse after arrival). It continues the whole time you're on the trip, even if you return to domicile and have a short or medium break in the middle. If you get legal rest (8+ hours) in domicile, then duty and per diem ends.
Most of the better regionals have similar or even better arrangements, but a few may have significant workrule gaps (pinnacle, colgan?) and mesa has no workrules other than per diem. At mesa you only get paid when they feel like paying you...pretty much their discretion.
Always happy to help out another navy swimmer
2. Not sure what an hourly rig is but SKW pays as follows:
- Leg Credit: The greater of scheduled flight time or actual flight time (totaled up on a daily basis). Flight time in 121 is gate-to-gate so this includes ATC, Wx, and deicing delays as long as you are off the gate.
- Daily Guarantee: 3:45 hours for coming to work.
- Monthly Guarantee: 75 hours.
- No Trip Rig, this is covered by the daily guarantee.
- Duty Rig: 50%...so 12 hours duty will pay at least 6 hours regardless of how little you fly. If you go over 12 hours you get more (x1.5 IIRC)
3. I'm middle of the pack in my domicile, and I get 4-5 day trips which show early afternoon or later, and get done in time to catch the last flight home. The late shows give me to 2-3 options to get to work, so I'm not hanging it out every week (stressful). All 700/900 flying for me, just because the schedules work out better. A more junior commuter might get stuck doing a 3 day followed by a 2 day (or some other split trip combo), in which case he needs a hotel or crashpad for the break between trips. He might also get an early show or late release, which would necessitate coming in the night before or staying the night after the trip...again hotel/crashpad required. Junior FO's and flight attendants have been known to "camp out" in the crewroom to save money, but this does not seem to happen at SKW...it is probably frowned upon.
4. All US airlines (except mesa) provide a single occupancy hotel. At SKW they range from barely adequate to luxurious. Sometimes you get a great hotel downtown, other times it's eastern-block housing in the airport industrial park.
5. Per diem starts when you report for duty at your domicile (45 minutes prior to departure) and ends when released from duty in your domicile (15 minutse after arrival). It continues the whole time you're on the trip, even if you return to domicile and have a short or medium break in the middle. If you get legal rest (8+ hours) in domicile, then duty and per diem ends.
Most of the better regionals have similar or even better arrangements, but a few may have significant workrule gaps (pinnacle, colgan?) and mesa has no workrules other than per diem. At mesa you only get paid when they feel like paying you...pretty much their discretion.
Always happy to help out another navy swimmer
It is funny that you mentioned getting paid for gate-to-gate time. I travelled to San Diego for a work thing several years ago and was on my first connection flight home (EMB-120). We boarded the plane very early in the moning and taxied only to sit at end of the runway for 30 minutes until the field opened. That puzzled me- now I know why.
How long, typically, can someone expect to fly as a FO before upgrading to Captain?
For those individuals that fly RJs, become captains, and then go into the majors- what happens to their pay? Do they immediately begin as 1st year FOs again?
06-19-2008, 08:16 PM
#77
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
Hi- thanks for taking the time to reply to all of that.
I understand that the hotel stays during duty are paid for...but what about while commuting? I imagine that the company does not fork out the individual's hotel bill, just curious.
Is there a realistic opportunity to have a side job during the first / second years as a new hire FO? Or, is the schedule so "up in the air" (literally) that it is impossible to hold another job?
I understand that the hotel stays during duty are paid for...but what about while commuting? I imagine that the company does not fork out the individual's hotel bill, just curious.
Is there a realistic opportunity to have a side job during the first / second years as a new hire FO? Or, is the schedule so "up in the air" (literally) that it is impossible to hold another job?
Your side job opportunity depends on the company, airplane, and base. If you end up on reserve for an extended period it will be hard to have a side gig. If you end up a line holder in a junior base where you can control your schedule and get a lot of days off, then you might be able to swing it.
Unless you are retiring from the military, consider staying in the reserves...you can probably work as much as you want to and the airline has to let you off. It's rare to be given a hard time over reserve duty from an airline. However...there are plenty of IA opportunities right now your reservists. If you stay in long enough it will probably get around to you.
06-19-2008, 08:55 PM
#79
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 24
My opinion is go to Skywest! Getting experience at Mesa is great but caution... You signed a training contract already and once you complete training (don't recall what is considered completing of training but probably after IOE) you could be required to pay it back. Upgrade training contracts are approx. 12,000 bucks and that translates to 1,000 a month. I don't know how much a SIC contact is worth but who cares. If you want a type rating that bad let Skywest buy you a couple or just pay 12,000 bucks and get a PIC type but don't get a worthless type rating from Mesa. SIC type ratings just mean you sat in the airplane legally for international flying thats it. Mesa legal department is busy, but knowing JO it wouldn't take but two seconds to send you a certified letter asking for the money and or threatening legal action. Mesa contract could be like an apartment lease the landlord wont let you out of unless you pay. Ask around, but I would wait and take the job with the better quality of life. Compare days off and pay to see if it is really worth getting a slightly faster upgrade (maybe) or having a life.
06-20-2008, 05:53 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: FOD
Posts: 536
*entered from the crashpad*
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