DAL4EVER

Amen!

The previous posts only show the immaturity, lack of knowledge of labor and the industry and how the law and history work.

When I read that tripe I think only of some 5 year old at Walmart whose mom just took a cookie away from him and he just throws a tantrum. Mom in turn will just dig in her heals and say not only will you not eat that cookie but I'm not going to give you any cookies again if you act like that. Since mom controls the cookies, the child must correct the behavior or go hungry.

Whoever you are, think about this. Phil is taking Delta to court to try and bring an injunction against us. DAL has a very powerful legal team that is exclusively employed by them and a huge firm on retainer. Pinnacle has two lawyers, Nikkie the lead counsel if she is still there is at best an equal opportunity hire. If you delay flights, you will only prove DAL's case. Also, anything you write on these forums is admissible in court.

The bigger shot across the bow and one that would have me seriously concerned is the future DAL intends Pinnacle to have with it. Getting rid of the DAL flying may only be 8 airplanes. But what about the 130+ planes with NWA? If NWA is merged, DAL may be saying that they won't need Pinnacle flying at all. They have way to many RJs as it is and publicly stated that there will be a major reduction in RJ flying.

Also, you don't think that the St. Thomas runs were a disaster? Pinnacle tells DAL that sure we can fly that route and then realizes it will only be able to operate the route with reduced loads that made it unprofitable. You don't think that didn't tick DAL off? Pinnacle made promises and then under-delivered. Consequently, DAL is making adjustments. If they don't get their ops under control with the NWA flying, you may seriously want to short this stock.

joel payne

Looks like the DAL portion only comprises 2% of Pinnacles traffic, but 70% of NWA's. More on the link below. DAL may also be looking to shed some SKW and Republic. HMMMM!
Shortcut to: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...=TQP_Mod_mktwN

jmack

you have no clue, ask a NetJets pilot how it worked for them.

and yes, before you go that route......during negotiations NJA was crying that they had no cash and would cripple the company if they paid what the pilots wanted and would bring on a furlough.

If you've been around the block, you've heard all this before

bored

I guess the difference between what Xjsaab is advocating and the other unsanctioned work slow downs boils down to this: professionalism and taking the high road. I think xjsaab probably has a great clue what he's talking about, if he has been at XJ for a few years.

We dealt with this very issue during our long and hard fought contract battle between 2001-2004. Our MEC always insisted we take the high road and not lower ourselves to the dregs of mgmt. I think in the end we were a better pilot group for remaining professional, classy and legal.

I agree an illegal slowdown and any other non sanctioned job action is not the best course of action. Let the law and section 6 process, no matter how convoluted it is, take its course.

newarkblows

??? taking the "high road" looks good on paper and is easy to say "well i am better then that" but where has it gotten us? maybe the high road isnt working anymore(if it ever did). This industry is not what it once was and we have given back something at every market slowdown. work slowdowns were effective for air traffic controllers, major labor groups in NYC, and almost any unionized group has had worker slow downs either voluntarily or unplanned gained something in the next contract. who gets paid more and has better job security now? I know a bus driver that is going to make more then me for the first 5 yrs of my career. Here I am on the bubble between potentially being furloughed and he is maintaining better benefits and a pension when he retires.

Ford and GM i believe didnt have a contract for a couple of hours... what happened? factories froze!!! what happened a day later? new contract. PCL going on what a couple of years???

You can be too good for a slowdown but i want my profession back. If my company loses a contract because i tried to improve my QOL then so be it. The industry will be better for it and even if i do get furloughed the flying/capacity will just be moved to another airline. If all pilots can say "enough is enough" and collectively not undercut one another then we might have a chance.

PS. no knock on your opinions but these are just what i think

1forflying

WOW... The rumors are spreading on this board. Last I checked we have never flown to St. Thomas. I have flown to St. Croix however with a full boat.

bored

I'm all for doing what needs to be done in order to secure a proper contract. What I'm saying is that it doesn't mean we can brake the law in order to get what we deserve. At Xj we could have so many times broken the law and conducted job actions. Instead we actually helped the company achieve some of the best operating results over the course of those years. By doing that, we never gave the company any opportunity to legitimately say we were conducting job actions. They couldn't go down that road, because we didn't let them. We took THAT leverage away from them. The ultimate show of force was when we passed the 30 day mark in the cooling off period and we didn't go on strike. The company was shut down for TWO DAYS. We held the trigger in that gun and the company knew it. The legal right to strike was the ultimate leverage on our part. It never would have been granted had we not taken the high road. It may have taken a long time, but we got it. Only then did mgmt negotiate. It might be tempting to be all radical, but it won't get you a contract any sooner.

I agree, having leverage like bus drivers, ATC controllers, auto workers etc would be great. But we don't... we get the railway labor act. Like it or not, that's what we've got to deal with.

DAL4EVER

I stand corrected. I believe that St. Thomas was proposed, Pinnacle accepted then had to retract due to not being able to fly to STT with a full boat of pax. I believe it is now flown with an EMB-175. Respectfully.

Farva

I am sorry if the UND guys have given you a headache. I know as a UND grad and a pilot at XJ I just try to do my best and and do my job to best of my knowledge. I dont try to be a know it all because it doesnt get anything accomplished and only makes the flight a nightmare instead of job with a good office window. I really just try to enjoy the job and always learning something new. Once again I apoligize for the few bad UND apples that fly for us.
-Farva

StraightShooter

OK that makes no sense. Alot of people went around the block but didn't open their eyes and take a good look. If you want to go that route, then get an MBA and research, research, research every aspect of the block as you go around it.

JMACK: NetJet's is completely, totaly, remarkably different than any airline. As far as a pilots job goes, it's not different. The corporate chemistry for NJA draws income from the "rich and famous" who drive around in bentleys.

The airlines don't work like that. Airlines fly poor, middle class, and occasionaly the rich and famous. Airliners aren't dressed with plush leather, decorated with fancy food. They are filled with economical decisions to move the average joe around the country.

Ask any United Airlines pilot how the slowdown from years ago helped their situation. They went from being the top airline, top pay to loosing 76% of their retirement, 50 % of their income, less benefits.

Listen very closely too me. At a corporate flying job the pilots are the show....period.

At the airlines, the pilots are the leaders. What they do trickles all the way down to the baggage handlers. If they slow down to get HUGE raises, then next in line are the mechanics, flight attendants, ticket agents, rampers, cleaners, wheelchair pushers, etc, etc, etc who stand behind the pilots saying "if ya'll are paying the pilots that well, then you should pay us that well too!"

And the downward spiral begins.