Eric Stratton

military...Hercs...majors...where do you come up with this stuff?

if you think pointing out whipsawing is craping on people then that is something you will have to deal with. I find it hilarious that people get upset when their flying might be taken away and then excited when they might take it from someone else. they just don't get it and maybe you don't either.

where in my post am a craping on, as you call them "insolent regional pilots" for being happy to keep their job. I said I was glad they kept their flying. unfortunately it still sounds like there could be some furloughs because of the branded going away. that sucks by the way

blastoff

Well, one quick, serious question...who's flying are we stealing? Right now we're just celebrating keeping our Coex flying. After all, our name used to officially be "Continental Express." In response to your other remark about "just putting flying up for bid," that is exactly what happens at the regional level at the end of every CPA, and is by no means whipsawing. What do you suggest as an alternative when flying goes up for bid? Maybe that's two questions.

ChinsFive

I don't get it, an airline that has a respectable CBA just kept flying. Any flying that airline gets won't be at the expense of it's pilot group. If a pilot group with a "worse" contract was to loose flying to XJT how is that a whipsaw? He doesn't get it. Read my earlier post agian.

blastoff

I agree, and I will be one of the furloughed. However, that is the natural order of things and I will "deal with it."

Eric Stratton

answer me this. will you be bigger now when branded goes away or were you bigger before you got whipsawed a few years ago?

do you know of some new cool kind of math that I haven't heard of? maybe that is the error of my ways...

Frank Lorenzo would absolutely love you because you don't care that whipsawing is going on. now that is priceless.

blastoff

I'm not sure what your question is...but I'll try to answer.

We will be smaller after Branded goes away, obviously, unless we find a new CPA with another airline.

If you're confused as to why we say we might grow, its because of the contract language we have with Continental. Under the old CPA, we couldn't fly more than 10 jets under CPA for another airline and couldn't fly into a CAL hub with another airline. (We fly 24 for Delta because only 10 are under a CPA, the rest are at-risk flying that Delta doesn't pay us a flat rate for) This was the "Most Favored Nation clause." This new CPA has that language removed, and we can actually pursue flying outside of CAL, whereas other airlines didn't want to touch us before because of "Most Favored Nation."

BTW, we weren't whipsawed. We lost flying which CAL contractually had the right to do. Some at XJT begrudge CHQ for that, but I don't. They said all along that they wanted multiple Express carriers, if not CHQ it would have been someone else, we were losing that flying no matter what. The only unfair thing was that we couldn't, in turn, bid for replacement flying (Can only bid with 10, but had 69 to replace), again because of Most Favored Nation. This is how we ended up with Branded.

Eric Stratton

your not stealing anyones right now. the guy was just excited about going out and getting flying from another carrier. he wasn't excited about doing it on your own (branded or like aca tried) but at getting it from another carrier which most likely will be at the expense of someone else.

I know you were called continental express. I know about CPA's and that is how they will be able to keep pay and contracts down and by all means that is whipsawing. The alternative is finding a way to stop that and it will start with not being accepting that it happens. if the airlines of past accepted it there wouldn't be scope language in contracts.

blastoff

I just really disagree with how you apply whipsawing. The Regionals are contractors, contracts go up for bid. True "whipsawing" happens at Holding Companies with multiple certificates. I'm still curious about what you think could be done differently.

How can you "end" CPA's? Do we all go back to at-risk flying and codeshares?...not with fuel prices this high.

Unless all flying goes back to mainline; in that case, you're preaching to the choir, maybe that's why we're all confused.

Eric Stratton

and how long do you seriously think you will be this top dog that you seem to think you are? you were extremely close to losing about half of the flying that you had a few years ago. what makes you think you are going to go out their and get all of this flying? express guys were all excited a few years ago about being able to expand in other markets when you were sold off. how much flying have you gotten? 24 airplanes for delta. so was that a gain break even, or loss of total flying. what will the total count be when branded goes away? I'm betting it won't be greater than the 275 that you had.

how long was comair on top? how about aca or air wisci? I'm betting between the two of us that you are the one who doesn't get it.

blastoff

I think you missed my point on MFN (Most Favored Nation). That is the big news. Our old contract handicapped our ability to secure new flying. We had to create Branded because that was the only large-scale flying we were contractually allowed to do. We don't care about being on top, we care about being competitive, and we couldn't do that under the old CPA.