SkyHigh

It seems that the only one who is being overly effected by my posts here is you. I am sorry my ideas threaten you so much. Your strong reactions suggest that you too are worried about the future of the industry and lash out at those who bring more bad news. Perhaps you should put me on your ignore list?

By far I am not the only one who has these views. In fact these days my ideas are becoming quite main stream. I am finding it difficult to post much these days since many others are beating me to the punch. However if you really are interested in the "lunatic fringe" then perhaps you would enjoy Barry Schiffs article on his assessment of the profession. Also Les Abend has been producing some interesting articles on the direction this profession is taking. And lastly you could just wait and see what happens to you over the next few years.

SkyHigh

Zapata

If I was lashing out at those that bring bad news, I would be lashing out at most everyone else that posts legitimate bad news. However, your posts are not news at all, good or bad. News has basis in fact and reality. Your posts are simply uninformed, ignorant and negative not to mention, histrionic.

As for putting you on ignore. No. First, I feel that, like many others here, I should contribute to pointing out to the new folks who you really are; an incorrigible and ignorant has-been that wants to validate your own failures by painting an unrealistic and overly negative picture of the industry. Secondly; Sometimes, you're actually good entertainment.

"insecure", "threatened", "new"? Nice try at damage control with your ad hominems.....sorry that I hurt your feelings.


P.S. You're no Barry Schiff or Les Abend

rickair7777

22 years and still counting, several OS's including grunt time. I know all about the bennies and have taken advantage of most of them. I wasn't in any way busting on the military, but I was addressing worst case transition to the civilian world.

If you were a truck or aircraft mechanic, or a dental tech, or something else with a direct civilian equivalent, you could walk right into a job of course.

But if you don't have a specific civilian skill (ie anti-tank gunner) then you are in a different boat. The soft skills and high levels of intiative, motivation, discipline and integrity all play in your favor, but you will likely need some technical or professional training to get a job that you really want.

I also made the transition, and it wasn't as easy as I expected. There is this self-perpetuating myth in active-duty land that the grass is always greener, and we can all walk into six-figure jobs because companies are desperate to hire us. It's not quite like that, there are some changes you will need to make in the way you present yourself and interact in the civilian interview and workplace environment...there is plenty of info out there on that, be sure to read and heed. Actually your military background will not pay off as much at the interview as later...once you actually GET the job, you will likely outperform all of the 23 year-old slackers who just got out of college, and move up rapidly.

If you're looking for an easy transition, then DoD civil service is probably the way to go, especially if you can work in your old MOS.

Anyway, I was trying to help answer your questions so feel free to ask away.

SkyHigh

I am happy to supply a source of entertainment for you then. However I suggest that you cut out the name calling and retaliate by developing useful and interesting arguments in contradiction to my positions. Name calling does not suit you and only serves to lower your public image.

You can do better than name calling and slander.

SkyHigh

Utah

If you think being in the military will give you an edge over civilian applicants, think again. After four years active duty with leadership experince, communication MOS, top secret clearance, and all that other stuff (Distinguished Honor Grad from a couple courses) , nobody really cared. Most of the people that will be interviewing you will never have had any military experince and could care less. Even better in places like the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia there can be an anti military mindset. I held 4-5 jobs before SkyWest, went on another half dozen interviews, and SkyWest was the only one to discuss my military experience in the interview.

Miltary pilots being interviewed by ex miltary pilots are the ones that have the advantage.

rickair7777

My previous discussion was about civilian employment in general, and you're obviously familiar with that process. With most employers, the fact that you were a 20-year senior NCO means little...they consider you the same as anyone else entering workforce out of college, except they might wonder how well you'll fit in.

Airlines are different...even if they don't discuss your military background, they will almost always take it into account. One of their objectives is to weed out those hairy-assed wild-men who are too individualistic to consistently follow the rules...but if you have an honorable discharge, they will consider that ticket punched.

There are a very few regional interviewers who have a civilian flying background but were rejected by the military at some point. They may hold a grudge. These guys might take it out on a C-130 pilot, but I doubt they would have any issue with a non-pilot ex-military type.

Javiator

Yeah, Utah's right.

I spent 4 years in the military working on Hornet avionics, graduated college in the military, and used the GI Bill to pay for its 60% of flight school. I had many awards and service achievement I was proud of and was eager to boast when I entered the “real world”. Only one damn company in 12 years asked about my military background and that was a DoD contractor. Go figure. Even then, they only wanted to know what my rate (MOS) was and did I have an honorable discharge for the purpose of holding a clearance.

I went to flight school after the service while my wife worked. I then put her through college while I flew on the side and worked as an engineer. I just now returned to full-time aviation as an official “second career”. It took me 15 years to get here. I am happy to be flying and learned quite a bit from the pilots on this forum before selecting my place of employment.

Be respectful of everyone and never assume that being an ex-serviceperson is going to put you ahead of the line. Being dedicated to flying and respectful of your fellow pilots will get you where you need to be and you’ll make some friends at the same time.

Jay

Spooled

The smart financial decision would be to avoid a career in aviation. Its to volatile. No job security what so ever.

You will most likely be away from home a lot, which makes it hard to have a wife and family. As one 747 pilot told said " I love my wife/husband, but I always call her and tell her I'm on my way home; so the other guy can leave; you just never know".

You will be healthy long enough to start making the big bucks? Lots of medications you cannot take. Must be a medical exam every 6 month/1 yr.

Proficiency checks every 6 months/ 1 yr - some companies they are jeopardy events.

This industry isn't like most other jobs, where you can quit one company and go work for another and earn the same amount or more. Once you leave one company you start at the bottom in pay and seniority.

I'm not paranoid, I'm just giving out real information for you to think about and decide for yourself.

If I knew 6 years ago what I know now... I would have NEVER gotten into aviation. Ever consider becoming a anesthesiologist? Lots of school but LOTS of reward.

tprangner

I say go for it. The only way you will know if you like it or not is to give it a try. If you contributed to the G.I. Bill, then it shouldn't cost you very much out-of-pocket to do part 61 training. 141 training will cost you because it is more expensive then at a local FBO. As long as you continue your education at a college, you can continue to recieve your G.I. Bill benefits on a monthly basis and use some of that on flight training.

My guess is that you should be able to live nicely off your retirement. If you contributed to TSP then you shouldn't struggle financially while in training. The industry will get better. Whether its now or a few years from now is irrelavant for at this moment since you're just getting into training. Its going to be at least 3 years before you can start edging the mins. for regional work and thats if you CFI. At anytime you can always quit flying professionally and still hold the ratings to enjoy during your well deserved retirement.

If you find flying is too unpredictable, but you still like working in the industry, there are always non-flying jobs such as dispatching, station managers up to upper management like director of flight ops or V.P. of a department. Flying can lead to a number of other jobs like working for FAA or corporate route. Bottom line, opinnions are great. I ask for opinnions in these forums all the time. It dosen't mean I have to follow what people say good or bad. Use it as guidance in your decision, but only you can decide. I try not to have regrets, so if you think you might regret it if you don't try it, hey you only live once.

Just my two cents.

Stryker

Am I the only one here that thinks this guy should get an objective answer?? Everyone who is in the industry has a personal opinion on what the lifestyle is like, how the pay works out for them, if they are home enough, blah blah blah....

What it boils down to is can you afford to live on a salary of say $20-25K for the first few years if you had to? If you have the drive then just go for it, but do some research that will give you objective answers... Every person is different and you have to look at if its the right move for you...yes you CAN make really good money if you are in the right place at the right time, but that will be well down the road so you have to look at whether the job satisfaction is more important, or the money... Cause you will probably have job satisfaction right away, but not quite so with the money....

I got out of the military last February and finished all my flight training in April. it doesn't have to be a hard transition. I had done all my research, knew the costs and what it took to get there. I would not take it back if I could. If its really what you want, do it.... None of us should ever make up your mind by our opinions....