Career change to pilot
05-28-2008, 11:27 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
I miss flying. I miss my aviation friends. I miss my dream. After 20 years of struggling in aviation you guys are all that I have left. I am sorry that you don't like what I have to say. My views are not very uplifting but it is what I believe. Try reading other people who have a different message. Sadly, Mine is becoming more common these days.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
I was pretty sure that you would feel the need to answer my post - so I'll add something that I thought of later.
First though I'll address what you say above.
I refuse to believe that you could have been so negative about a career while you were flying and still say that you miss all the things you list above. There is no way that you would have survived that environment if you spewed forth such negativity in the ready room - or whatever they call it in the civilian world. Are you saying that you weren't always this negative and that you did, ONCE upon a time, feel like a majority of other pilots on this forum do? And yes - I said majority. I feel that you represent the vocal minority - who often make the most noise while the majority quitely go about their business without feeling the need to convert everyone to think the exact same way that they do. The mind set that it didn't work for me in my situation so it can't work for anybody.
If so....that brings me to my other point. Why don't YOU try something different and relate to the readers a POSITIVE story from the happier times when you LOVED your flying, LOVED your friends, and LOVED your dream. Can you remember those times SkyHigh? I'd like to hear them.
It isn't that I don't like what you have to say. Read the last line of my post. I'm entering into a career field that is back on it's heels right now. I want to know the bad. I want to know what I am getting into - BUT IT ALL CAN'T BE BAD SkyHigh. You have NOTHING good to say. I'm sorry SkyHigh - it just isn't ALL bad - no matter how much you want it to be or wish it were or for some reason want everyone else to believe.
Can you do it SkyHigh? Can you say something positive?
USMCFLYR
05-29-2008, 03:39 AM
#142
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
If you can be happy making 60-80k/yr. as a reg. CA, then go for it. That is an attainable goal that many pilots who are willing to apply themselves will make. If you are really getting into it dreaming of 6 figures and 20 days off/month, DO NOT DO IT! The odds are against anyone making the jump anymore. For MOST that dream will die at their regional. Nowdays, you are simply lucky if you're not furloughed at some point in your career. However, I love my job and if I end my career right here then I will be ok with that. Not my goal, but my life is not about my job. My life's about my family and what I do around my career, so my job will serve those things and not the other way around. Go for it if you will be ok with the reg. CA money...DON'T commute in my openion...Bid to be home...and the job is great. Don't live life for aviation
05-29-2008, 05:48 AM
#143
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
Add up your double income.
Subtract 30%+ for various taxes.
Subtract mortgage and two car payments.
Subtract 15% for 401K.
Subtract out some ADDITIONAL retirement savings (unless your wife is a government employee). Another 5-10%, depending on your circumstances.
Don't forget college savings for any kids...how much depends on your personal philosophy.
You will also need a big cash reserve (10k+) to cover medical problems or reversion to FO pay after your company goes BK. If you think you can work at a regional for the rest of your life and not be subject to whipsaw, furloughs, and liquidation, you're high as a kite
I think the regionals will aways be there, but remember that the whole industry is rigged to dispose of you when you get too senior (and expensive). Unless all the majors decide to go to one-list I don't see this changing.Now whatcha got left over? Any discretionary money for boats, motorcycles, travel, etc?
05-29-2008, 06:15 AM
#144
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
All Bad
No, it isn't all bad. However pointing out the bad is my niche. For you I will try.
It is easier now than ever before to get a flying job. Pilots have more career options and information is wide spread and easy to get. I remember back to when I was in high school. I had a few friends who fathers were big time airline pilots. They were, rich, respected and home all the time.
I love to fly and when I started sacrifices made in aviation were worth while and could lead to a better life. Over time however I have seen that realization change to the point where pilots hold plumber wages and a slave schedule as their goal. Each new generation is prepared to work harder and for less.
My aim here is to save a few people through brining up the ugly truth of this profession. I am sure that with a military fighter background that you will not have much trouble finding a good job. However If you have 20 or 30 years of professional life ahead of you I would advise taking a strong and hard look into the future.
UAL is full of fighter pilots who could be out on the street if their company caves in this summer. Where will they go then? How will they be able to replace that income and lifestyle? 10 years ago they were the top of the pile. Big names today most likely will be dust tomorrow and there are no fall back positions anymore.
I get the feeling that you would rather not have to think about this stuff but you should.
SKyHigh
It is easier now than ever before to get a flying job. Pilots have more career options and information is wide spread and easy to get. I remember back to when I was in high school. I had a few friends who fathers were big time airline pilots. They were, rich, respected and home all the time.
I love to fly and when I started sacrifices made in aviation were worth while and could lead to a better life. Over time however I have seen that realization change to the point where pilots hold plumber wages and a slave schedule as their goal. Each new generation is prepared to work harder and for less.
My aim here is to save a few people through brining up the ugly truth of this profession. I am sure that with a military fighter background that you will not have much trouble finding a good job. However If you have 20 or 30 years of professional life ahead of you I would advise taking a strong and hard look into the future.
UAL is full of fighter pilots who could be out on the street if their company caves in this summer. Where will they go then? How will they be able to replace that income and lifestyle? 10 years ago they were the top of the pile. Big names today most likely will be dust tomorrow and there are no fall back positions anymore.
I get the feeling that you would rather not have to think about this stuff but you should.
SKyHigh
SkyHigh -
I was pretty sure that you would feel the need to answer my post - so I'll add something that I thought of later.
First though I'll address what you say above.
I refuse to believe that you could have been so negative about a career while you were flying and still say that you miss all the things you list above. There is no way that you would have survived that environment if you spewed forth such negativity in the ready room - or whatever they call it in the civilian world. Are you saying that you weren't always this negative and that you did, ONCE upon a time, feel like a majority of other pilots on this forum do? And yes - I said majority. I feel that you represent the vocal minority - who often make the most noise while the majority quitely go about their business without feeling the need to convert everyone to think the exact same way that they do. The mind set that it didn't work for me in my situation so it can't work for anybody.
If so....that brings me to my other point. Why don't YOU try something different and relate to the readers a POSITIVE story from the happier times when you LOVED your flying, LOVED your friends, and LOVED your dream. Can you remember those times SkyHigh? I'd like to hear them.
It isn't that I don't like what you have to say. Read the last line of my post. I'm entering into a career field that is back on it's heels right now. I want to know the bad. I want to know what I am getting into - BUT IT ALL CAN'T BE BAD SkyHigh. You have NOTHING good to say. I'm sorry SkyHigh - it just isn't ALL bad - no matter how much you want it to be or wish it were or for some reason want everyone else to believe.
Can you do it SkyHigh? Can you say something positive?
USMCFLYR
I was pretty sure that you would feel the need to answer my post - so I'll add something that I thought of later.
First though I'll address what you say above.
I refuse to believe that you could have been so negative about a career while you were flying and still say that you miss all the things you list above. There is no way that you would have survived that environment if you spewed forth such negativity in the ready room - or whatever they call it in the civilian world. Are you saying that you weren't always this negative and that you did, ONCE upon a time, feel like a majority of other pilots on this forum do? And yes - I said majority. I feel that you represent the vocal minority - who often make the most noise while the majority quitely go about their business without feeling the need to convert everyone to think the exact same way that they do. The mind set that it didn't work for me in my situation so it can't work for anybody.
If so....that brings me to my other point. Why don't YOU try something different and relate to the readers a POSITIVE story from the happier times when you LOVED your flying, LOVED your friends, and LOVED your dream. Can you remember those times SkyHigh? I'd like to hear them.
It isn't that I don't like what you have to say. Read the last line of my post. I'm entering into a career field that is back on it's heels right now. I want to know the bad. I want to know what I am getting into - BUT IT ALL CAN'T BE BAD SkyHigh. You have NOTHING good to say. I'm sorry SkyHigh - it just isn't ALL bad - no matter how much you want it to be or wish it were or for some reason want everyone else to believe.
Can you do it SkyHigh? Can you say something positive?
USMCFLYR
05-29-2008, 06:33 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 103
I never had a problem with 60 - 80k. Its just the regional schedule and lifestyle that are wearing me out. I really don't have a problem with min. days off. I just get really tired doing constant standups and 14+ hour days with a hour drive to work + a 30 min ride on the employee bus. I could live closer...but who wants to live that close to a major airport in the ghetto. If you are a high energy person that routinely lives on less than 5 or 6 hours of sleep(I know many people who are). Then you may very well be happy retiring at a regional, and this may very well be the job for you.
To each his/her own.
Its a truck drivers lifestyle with a better view out the window. If thats what your signing up for, then your making the right move.
To each his/her own.
Its a truck drivers lifestyle with a better view out the window. If thats what your signing up for, then your making the right move.
05-29-2008, 06:45 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Let me eloborate on my last post before 50 guys call me a slacker. I like working hard at work. When im there i would like to fly constantly. What bothers me is the 4 hour "productivity sits" at the airport that make you duty out every day. You should be able to get your 8 hours of flight time, hit a hotel, sleep for 8 hours ie. at least 10 hours off. I have trouble seeing why thats so hard for the airlines to make that work.
05-29-2008, 11:07 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Having said that, i've always been in the wrong place, at the wrong time! All my peers in this business (well most) are at least Captains, and I have three friends at Southwest alone. It was very hard to watch them excel, as I sat idle for one reason or another. I'm still happy for them though. I've also made some bad decisions to lead me where i am today. Which is still in a good place BTW, and a great marriage. Oh yeah, she's an attorney .
However, some of the tide is turning the other way now that some of those previously mentioned captains are on the street due to the fact that Options let them go last Friday. (I used to fly for them). I'm just stating facts what happened to ME, and only ME. This is what I think skyhigh was trying to do. I'm not bitter right now. I was for a little while after I got the most recent door slammed in my face, but now i'm close to being at Peace with myself and decided to find what else I have a passion for. one of them is finally completing my Master's degree. Now i've got something to focus on instead of climbto350.com, bizjetjobs.com, etc.Lear
05-29-2008, 11:15 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: dogstyle
Posts: 375
Pilots are not supposed to be starving artists. They are highly trained professionals. Our career demands strict lifestyle restrictions and self sacrifice. It is just crazy to blow a small fortune and hope to one day to make as much as a plumber or mail man.
People really could use a reality check before leaping into an aviation career. No one is out there offering the opposing view. Most rational people do not want a career of poverty, abuse and a never ending string of furloughs.
At least actors and singers can audition without the huge investment in cash and wasted years. All they have to loose is an afternoon of waiting in line.
SkyHigh
People really could use a reality check before leaping into an aviation career. No one is out there offering the opposing view. Most rational people do not want a career of poverty, abuse and a never ending string of furloughs.
At least actors and singers can audition without the huge investment in cash and wasted years. All they have to loose is an afternoon of waiting in line.
SkyHigh
05-29-2008, 11:35 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
[quote=SkyHigh;392874]No, it isn't all bad. However pointing out the bad is my niche. For you I will try.
Right - a niche - and you play it up to the MAX!
It is easier now than ever before to get a flying job. Pilots have more career options and information is wide spread and easy to get. I remember back to when I was in high school. I had a few friends who fathers were big time airline pilots. They were, rich, respected and home all the time.
Well there was a LITTLE good. Keep it coming..........
I love to fly and when I started sacrifices made in aviation were worth while and could lead to a better life. Over time however I have seen that realization change to the point where pilots hold plumber wages and a slave schedule as their goal. Each new generation is prepared to work harder and for less.
My aim here is to save a few people through brining up the ugly truth of this profession. I am sure that with a military fighter background that you will not have much trouble finding a good job. However If you have 20 or 30 years of professional life ahead of you I would advise taking a strong and hard look into the future.
UAL is full of fighter pilots who could be out on the street if their company caves in this summer. Where will they go then? How will they be able to replace that income and lifestyle? 10 years ago they were the top of the pile. Big names today most likely will be dust tomorrow and there are no fall back positions anymore.
WHoops...fell back into the old SkyHigh. 90%+ of this post is still negative.
Sky - TELL ME A GOOD STORY FROM YOUR PAST! YOU CAN DO IT MAN!
I get the feeling that you would rather not have to think about this stuff but you should.
This is not giving me much credit at all now is it? I have spent a few years before the military flying - planning to go a civilian flying route if the military didn't work out - which at the time after 7 - yes 7 - rejections for COMMISSIONING wasn't looking very promising - but I pressed and didn't let it stop me and in the end it turned out a different way - and I'm glad. Now I've spent nearly 20 years watching a majority of my seniors/peers/ and even a few juniors get out and into the airlines. I've been exposed to some of it for a long time - the goods and the bad.
I want to be a professional pilot. I want to make a living flying. I don't want to be a lawyer or an accountant. YOU assume that I want to work in the 121 world. Maybe I do - and maybe I don't. With a good wage - there are those bunches of opportunities that even you say are out there. So in the end - you are mistaken SkyHigh assuming that I would rather not think about it. Also - being a student of the ariline industry - you should know how cyclic things can be (are) in this industry.
USMCFLYR
Right - a niche - and you play it up to the MAX!
It is easier now than ever before to get a flying job. Pilots have more career options and information is wide spread and easy to get. I remember back to when I was in high school. I had a few friends who fathers were big time airline pilots. They were, rich, respected and home all the time.
Well there was a LITTLE good. Keep it coming..........
I love to fly and when I started sacrifices made in aviation were worth while and could lead to a better life. Over time however I have seen that realization change to the point where pilots hold plumber wages and a slave schedule as their goal. Each new generation is prepared to work harder and for less.
My aim here is to save a few people through brining up the ugly truth of this profession. I am sure that with a military fighter background that you will not have much trouble finding a good job. However If you have 20 or 30 years of professional life ahead of you I would advise taking a strong and hard look into the future.
UAL is full of fighter pilots who could be out on the street if their company caves in this summer. Where will they go then? How will they be able to replace that income and lifestyle? 10 years ago they were the top of the pile. Big names today most likely will be dust tomorrow and there are no fall back positions anymore.
WHoops...fell back into the old SkyHigh. 90%+ of this post is still negative.
Sky - TELL ME A GOOD STORY FROM YOUR PAST! YOU CAN DO IT MAN!
I get the feeling that you would rather not have to think about this stuff but you should.
This is not giving me much credit at all now is it? I have spent a few years before the military flying - planning to go a civilian flying route if the military didn't work out - which at the time after 7 - yes 7 - rejections for COMMISSIONING wasn't looking very promising - but I pressed and didn't let it stop me and in the end it turned out a different way - and I'm glad. Now I've spent nearly 20 years watching a majority of my seniors/peers/ and even a few juniors get out and into the airlines. I've been exposed to some of it for a long time - the goods and the bad.
I want to be a professional pilot. I want to make a living flying. I don't want to be a lawyer or an accountant. YOU assume that I want to work in the 121 world. Maybe I do - and maybe I don't. With a good wage - there are those bunches of opportunities that even you say are out there. So in the end - you are mistaken SkyHigh assuming that I would rather not think about it. Also - being a student of the ariline industry - you should know how cyclic things can be (are) in this industry.
USMCFLYR
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 05-29-2008 at 11:36 AM. Reason: highlighting
05-29-2008, 11:43 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Sir, with all due respect, are you just entering into the field now? Or do you have experience outside of the Marines doing Civilian flying? Not intended to flame, just a legitimate question. I still don't see where skyhigh is being negative. Maybe it's because I went through heck in this industry as well. Yes, there is some good in Aviation. I used to love waking up in Martha's Vineyard, and going to bed in San Francisco. That I always thought was neat. I loved one day jogging around San Francisco Bay (not the whole way!), and the next day running in Bermuda along the coast.
Having said that, i've always been in the wrong place, at the wrong time! All my peers in this business (well most) are at least Captains, and I have three friends at Southwest alone. It was very hard to watch them excel, as I sat idle for one reason or another. I'm still happy for them though. I've also made some bad decisions to lead me where i am today. Which is still in a good place BTW, and a great marriage. Oh yeah, she's an attorney . However, some of the tide is turning the other way now that some of those previously mentioned captains are on the street due to the fact that Options let them go last Friday. (I used to fly for them). I'm just stating facts what happened to ME, and only ME. This is what I think skyhigh was trying to do. I'm not bitter right now. I was for a little while after I got the most recent door slammed in my face, but now i'm close to being at Peace with myself and decided to find what else I have a passion for. one of them is finally completing my Master's degree. Now i've got something to focus on instead of climbto350.com, bizjetjobs.com, etc.
Lear
Having said that, i've always been in the wrong place, at the wrong time! All my peers in this business (well most) are at least Captains, and I have three friends at Southwest alone. It was very hard to watch them excel, as I sat idle for one reason or another. I'm still happy for them though. I've also made some bad decisions to lead me where i am today. Which is still in a good place BTW, and a great marriage. Oh yeah, she's an attorney .
However, some of the tide is turning the other way now that some of those previously mentioned captains are on the street due to the fact that Options let them go last Friday. (I used to fly for them). I'm just stating facts what happened to ME, and only ME. This is what I think skyhigh was trying to do. I'm not bitter right now. I was for a little while after I got the most recent door slammed in my face, but now i'm close to being at Peace with myself and decided to find what else I have a passion for. one of them is finally completing my Master's degree. Now i've got something to focus on instead of climbto350.com, bizjetjobs.com, etc.Lear
In your first paragraph you show what sets you and SkyHigh apart from each other. You actually aid that you enjoyed something about flying. You admitted that you were bitter but can and have gotten over it. SkyHigh (in my time on the forum) has never said a single positive thing about his past flying career. That is why I asked him for ONE good story!
Off I go for the day.
Thanks for posting.
USMCFLYR
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