SkyHigh

De727ups,

Why don't you tell me how my UPS hiring estimates are wrong? That what everyone is waiting to hear. So far I can not recall you giving any solid answers here on much of anything. I have not read any direct career advise that you have given. I have not seen any attempts you have made to declare what your life philosophies are other than aviation is fine.

How is it fine?

How many applications are on file with UPS?

Do they all meet the minimums?

Is my estimation on average hiring accurate?

How many pilots does UPS interview and how many do they take?

Does UPS really want transoceanic experience now?

Do you think that a shotgun approach to an aviation career is good enough or should pilots take aim at a specific goal?

Ranger, a famous poster here on APC, who is a FedEx captain, once estimated that a pilots odds were 20 to one. What do you think the odds are? Will everyone make it who tries? And will they have an outside life left to salvage after they have?


Skyhigh

de727ups

"Will everyone make it who tries?"

Depends on what you are trying to make it to. So I'd say yes and no. UPS, no, no promises, but I just flew with a turboprop guy who got hired a year ago. Is a promise required for this to be a worthy career? What promises do doctors, lawyers, cops, or firemen have? I'm not sure the promise Skyhigh seeks can be found anywhere....

A happy career depends a lot on the persons demands. Skyhigh's demands were very high. He wouldn't consider SWA. He wouldn't consider World. He wouldn't consider international flying (all things I'd have considered). In fact, Skyhigh wouldn't consider anything where he can't easily commute (his own words). Odds were stacked against him. Personally, there are many lesser flying jobs I'd have been happy with. Odds become more stacked in my favor the more flexible I am.

One thing for sure. If you quit, you have zero chance.

SkyHigh

If you quit you have zero chance. True enough. You still did not answer any of my questions. My demands really were not that high. I am a local guy who wanted to work for the local company. I could get a job tomorrow if I was willing to throw out my friends, family, financial security and home. Not much of an option or career choice if you ask me.

What are the odds of totally blowing up everything else in your life that you value if you don't quit, or having to accept a heavily discounted version of your dream. That is what I am most interested in.

How many applications does UPS have on file?

SkyHigh

ebl14

I was just commuting out of seattle the other day and met a SWA pilot going to work...

nky30

de727UPS I am sorry if this is common knowledge on here but are you married or divorced or have you been a bachelor? The only reason I ask is the "flexibility" you speak of seriously gets reduced when you have a family that has to be as "flexible" as your career needs to be. It would probably be great for the resume for everyone on here to move oveseas and fly....that would be very flexible but not very realistic. I totally agree with your opinion that the more flexible you are the more chances you have to succeed but you seem a bit harsh on skyhigh. If a guy is trying to make things better for his family I have a hard time faulting him...if he did something you wouldn't have done that is where my question becomes relevant to you....have you been a bachelor or have you had to make some of those tough decisions as well that effect your wife and children. I am all for criticism if you walk a mile in there shoes, so if you have then go for it but if you haven't had a family and had to make those decisions like he says he has then give him a break...frankly I'm a bit tired of seeing you two go back and forth...get a room..j/k. Also one more point...telling everyone how much you make...classy.

ExperimentalAB

I changed my mind. I'm not happy anymore LoL. Actually, I think I'm becoming more like SkyHigh everytime I go to work!!

SkyHigh

Right now there are a bunch of guys who are laid off from shutdown airlines who are married and on the street. Most of them are older and have families. The choices they have are not that great. Most of the better airlines are not hiring right now and, it could be years before things really get going again.

The guys in Hawaii will either have to move to the states or take a job with the company that closed them down. In any case they will have to start over at less than a third of what they were making, at the bottom of the list and most likely have to move.

My guess is that at least half will never fly again. Perhaps they should be told to buck up and stop crying when the going gets a little tuff? To them this isn't just a little ruff patch but career Armageddon. Some here would like to suggest that furloughs and shutdowns are a normal and acceptable part of this profession. It is difficult to understand how devastating these "ruff" spots are until you are the one who is trying to support a growing family on a thin unemployment check and little hope.

SkyHigh

ExperimentalAB

nky30...I really don't think it's much of a secret what anybody here makes. Payscales are published here, and it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to multiply

But, I think it's good for somebody to show they're making it here - with all the doom and gloom around the boards, it's nice to see there is a very, very small light at the tunnel. But yeah, in short, not classy in other industries, but perfectly acceptable here.

FlyJSH

You put many limitations on what you would accept: essentially put all your eggs in one basket. I respect you decision and am sorry it didn't work out for you. But if you compare getting hired to a quality company to getting drafted to a major league ball club, your limits meant you could have only been happy if drafted by Seatle... that makes it kinda tough.

On the flip side, there are a fair number of regional "lifers" who have stayed at an outstation after they could have moved on to the big boys for the very same reasons you list. Still, they are berated for working for "bottom feeders" or dismissed as being fools.

Wildflyin

There's no such thing as "I have no choice". There are always choices, just the that certain options are less than ideal..to put it very very mildly. All you can do is believe you made the right one. Sky High values his family and believes that should come first over his taking a risk. That is fine and very repectful. Other guys can see that same situation and think "my family and friends will still be there and support me taking this job, this risk" and that's fine and respectful. Everyone's situation is different and neither should be criticizing the other since neither one knows how the other person sees the world.