Who else is tired???????????????
04-13-2008, 05:08 PM
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Stretched Barbie Jet
Posts: 239
Those people who live in those neighborhoods probably don't have college degrees and tens of thousands of dollars of specialized training. I'm willing to bet that they would not continue to live in those neighborhoods if they obtained the above education. Aside from that, I do agree that $40k is enough money to live in most areas of this country. The contention is not that we are underpaid relative to the median household income in the country, its that we are underpaid for the level of investment in our skill set.
04-13-2008, 05:15 PM
#172
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
You would be surprised at the amont of these people that actually do posses college educations, or specialized skills. In the long run we will all at least double our investment. Im sure I will triple my investment in my lifetime at the absolute least, and thats if I went back to flight instructing full time. The problem is we dont make our investment back quick enough, patience and persistence is what we lack in this country, one of the reasons we are in a recession now.
04-13-2008, 05:42 PM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: S2c Backseat
Posts: 175
Guys,
As my user name would imply, I have already made the jump. Let me just say that medicine (in my case nursing) offers tremendous job satisfaction, stable employment, and a new grad Associate Degree nurse makes Regional captain pay. Plus, if you tell your wife you are "going to have a few drinks with some people from work" what that really means is "Honey, I am going to go drinking with 20 hot chicks half my age."
As my user name would imply, I have already made the jump. Let me just say that medicine (in my case nursing) offers tremendous job satisfaction, stable employment, and a new grad Associate Degree nurse makes Regional captain pay. Plus, if you tell your wife you are "going to have a few drinks with some people from work" what that really means is "Honey, I am going to go drinking with 20 hot chicks half my age."
Congrats bro-we have agency RN's at our hospital making $120,000 per year. Get your year of Critical Care in and go agency.
04-13-2008, 05:48 PM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: S2c Backseat
Posts: 175
I'm right there with you. I've been through one furlough, and I'm at my second 121 airline, and I'm looking back and regretting ever setting foot in the cockpit of a plane. To be honest, I don't mind the job so much, but I'm tired of the lifestyle we put up with for the pay. It's out of whack. I'm tired of living out of hotels. Out of all my friends who graduated college when I did, 10 years ago, I'm am making the least amount of money. I'm also home the least amount of hours per month. I'm sitting asking myself what I got myself into. My problem is I'm getting too old to back out.
Don't fall into that trap, I backed out at 39-wishing I had backed out at 38.
04-13-2008, 05:57 PM
#175
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
04-13-2008, 06:15 PM
#177
VW Bus Driver
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: ERJ145XR
Posts: 140
Saab, Thanks for this thread.
As a first year FO I will barely break 20k this year. My younger brother is starting the police academy and will make $50,000 starting pay. I know that police work has its stresses and dangers, but paying $20k to fly a jet while holding the lives of 50+ people in your hands is criminal. I have a hard time sleeping. I get 3 to 4 hours at night. I am always worried about how to pay the utility bills and if I there will be anything left.
I prepared for this first year as best that I could. I had $3000 saved and no car or credit card payments to meet. Now, my savings are gone, $3000 on a credit card and I have begun getting food at the food bank just trying to make it. I am now asking myself at what point is MY desire to be a pilot adversely affecting the quality of life not only of myself, but most importantly the QOL of my family.
Just a little rant about Livin' the dream!
As a first year FO I will barely break 20k this year. My younger brother is starting the police academy and will make $50,000 starting pay. I know that police work has its stresses and dangers, but paying $20k to fly a jet while holding the lives of 50+ people in your hands is criminal. I have a hard time sleeping. I get 3 to 4 hours at night. I am always worried about how to pay the utility bills and if I there will be anything left.
I prepared for this first year as best that I could. I had $3000 saved and no car or credit card payments to meet. Now, my savings are gone, $3000 on a credit card and I have begun getting food at the food bank just trying to make it. I am now asking myself at what point is MY desire to be a pilot adversely affecting the quality of life not only of myself, but most importantly the QOL of my family.
Just a little rant about Livin' the dream!
04-13-2008, 06:54 PM
#178
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Medevac
Years ago I flew for a jet MedEvac company. One flight nurse made more than the captain and FO combined. They also received a solid retirement and were on call half the time that the pilots were.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
04-13-2008, 07:17 PM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Ramen-eating duck driver
Posts: 255
The thread in review...
...a free service provided during "Breaking Bad" commercial breaks 
------------------
SAAB: great thread. As far as I'm concerned, the most thought-provoking posts on the board are from you, Vagabond, and possibly Jungle (in the "photojournalistic globetrotter" genre). In honor of you, and your patience with WhizWheel and ebl14 poking you with a stick until you snap, as well as APC in general - now that we get quoted by the mainstream press - I've assembled an executive summary with choice quotes in various categories.
The thing that no one wants to admit:
Deadhead: "The problem is we, as pilots, are so eager to get that "dream job" that a majority of us are willing to sacrifice."
Andy 171773: "I can't see myself doing anything else, no[r] do I want to do anything else. We all got the sickness..."
SAABaroowski: "We all love the job and that actually may be the problem, we don't mind working for low-pay."
ERJ135: "...the enjoyment of flying and the many days off outweigh the rest. So far."
Deadhead (again): "I agree with you first year pay at the majors should be at least 50K, but as long as there is a willingness to work for sub-par wages, management will win hand over fist every time."
ebl14: "But you should have known what this lifestyle would be like before you signed up for your first flight in your private training."
birdlj: "We all took the job for low pay, and lousy conditions. It will not get better until low time pilots stop taking these jobs. That just ain't gonna happen."
Now What??
Danzig: "The first hurtle is unifying the pilots, it seems to me that, no matter what you do, someone will always be there to undermine your efforts - to push their own agenda."
Skyhigh: "If anyone here gets laid off and has been considering a career change it can be a blessing in disguise. The government is eager to help and offers many programs to displaced workers."
SAABaroowski: "On a positive note, I am going up again in a 172 next week, Grass roots flying is where its at..."
Outright Heresy:
phoenix 23684: "Pilots should be able to go from one carrier to the next and be awarded a position partially based on their credentials."
cbire880: "We have made ourselves interchangable labor in most markets. If we were expected to do more than drive the bus (like sell the airline to our customers) then we might be considered more than bus drivers."
ebuhoner: "This is not a job to make good money, this is a job where you are supposed to enjoy what you do in exchange of less security/pay."
Skyhigh: "Why make all the sacrifices, take all the risk and huge investment in time and money, move away from where all your friends and family are, and face a crumbling future to hopefully make a bit more than a plumber anyway?"
Wisdom:
rickair7777: "What we really need is for industry newbies to make a VERY thoughtful decision before they start in the first place...and then remained committed to sticking it out and standing up for what's fair."
Lanesuzza: "I am now asking myself at what point is MY desire to be a pilot adversely affecting the quality of life not only of myself, but most importantly the QOL of my family." [during first year as a jungle jet FO]
------------------
SAAB: great thread. As far as I'm concerned, the most thought-provoking posts on the board are from you, Vagabond, and possibly Jungle (in the "photojournalistic globetrotter" genre). In honor of you, and your patience with WhizWheel and ebl14 poking you with a stick until you snap, as well as APC in general - now that we get quoted by the mainstream press - I've assembled an executive summary with choice quotes in various categories.
The thing that no one wants to admit:
Deadhead: "The problem is we, as pilots, are so eager to get that "dream job" that a majority of us are willing to sacrifice."
Andy 171773: "I can't see myself doing anything else, no[r] do I want to do anything else. We all got the sickness..."
SAABaroowski: "We all love the job and that actually may be the problem, we don't mind working for low-pay."
ERJ135: "...the enjoyment of flying and the many days off outweigh the rest. So far."
Deadhead (again): "I agree with you first year pay at the majors should be at least 50K, but as long as there is a willingness to work for sub-par wages, management will win hand over fist every time."
ebl14: "But you should have known what this lifestyle would be like before you signed up for your first flight in your private training."
birdlj: "We all took the job for low pay, and lousy conditions. It will not get better until low time pilots stop taking these jobs. That just ain't gonna happen."
Now What??
Danzig: "The first hurtle is unifying the pilots, it seems to me that, no matter what you do, someone will always be there to undermine your efforts - to push their own agenda."
Skyhigh: "If anyone here gets laid off and has been considering a career change it can be a blessing in disguise. The government is eager to help and offers many programs to displaced workers."
SAABaroowski: "On a positive note, I am going up again in a 172 next week, Grass roots flying is where its at..."
Outright Heresy:
phoenix 23684: "Pilots should be able to go from one carrier to the next and be awarded a position partially based on their credentials."
cbire880: "We have made ourselves interchangable labor in most markets. If we were expected to do more than drive the bus (like sell the airline to our customers) then we might be considered more than bus drivers."
ebuhoner: "This is not a job to make good money, this is a job where you are supposed to enjoy what you do in exchange of less security/pay."
Skyhigh: "Why make all the sacrifices, take all the risk and huge investment in time and money, move away from where all your friends and family are, and face a crumbling future to hopefully make a bit more than a plumber anyway?"
Wisdom:
rickair7777: "What we really need is for industry newbies to make a VERY thoughtful decision before they start in the first place...and then remained committed to sticking it out and standing up for what's fair."
Lanesuzza: "I am now asking myself at what point is MY desire to be a pilot adversely affecting the quality of life not only of myself, but most importantly the QOL of my family." [during first year as a jungle jet FO]
04-13-2008, 07:21 PM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
Those people who live in those neighborhoods probably don't have college degrees and tens of thousands of dollars of specialized training. I'm willing to bet that they would not continue to live in those neighborhoods if they obtained the above education. Aside from that, I do agree that $40k is enough money to live in most areas of this country. The contention is not that we are underpaid relative to the median household income in the country, its that we are underpaid for the level of investment in our skill set.
Exactly! It's maddening when people compare us ditch diggers, landscapers, or other menial jobs that don't require tremendous amounts of training, a college education, and tremendous amounts of regulation/scrutinization. Keep it apples to apples for crying out loud.
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