Failed New Hire Oral Exams
03-25-2008, 07:44 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,814
Failing an oral is not a big deal, you go home and study and pass the second time. There is less pressure because you already had done it and you'll feel more ready. In fact it's better for those guys who "breezed" through systems to fail than pass because they'll have a much better knowledge about systems the second time around.
Don't pass judgement so quickly either - we have no idea why he busted - it could have been the Check Airman for all we know - and that DOES happen...half my class at Trans States busted, and not all of them deserved it.
03-25-2008, 08:56 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Sort of, but not really.
You fail your PPL ride, the FAA will have a record of the pink slip/unsat issued by the examiner. As well as the associated white temporary after you pass, then a copy of the permanent they later mail you.
The record of failing a non-pink slip event (like a new hire oral) will be on file with the airlines training records, but not with the FAA. No 8710 process is EVER started, not certificate to issue, no potential pink slip.
03-25-2008, 10:59 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 955
I don't think it will be reported as a failure via PRIA. I believe the "training event" is his "New Hire Initial" training. I doubt a failed oral will be reported, unless he washes out altogether.
03-25-2008, 11:08 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,107
The airline WILL keep records of all significant training evolutions as a liability CYA, and because the FAA requires some level of detail about a 121 training event (as opposed to pass/fail). Ever seen those checklists the instructors and examiners use in the sim? Those probably don't get thrown out...
The PRIA does NOT give the respondent the option to selectively return some part but not all of their records...they must return everything they have.
The only out on this is the five-year lookback. I would assume that anything over five years old should not be reported.
03-25-2008, 11:38 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Airline #4
Posts: 450
Yeah I agree with Experimental, sometimes it could just very well be the check airman... almost half of the Feb Class (37 people) at TSA failed their oral, whereas the month before only 2 out of 22 failed the oral the first time. Same with the sim...
03-25-2008, 01:34 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
If you ever see your airline's training record of you, it will show ALL events that are required to be trained as well as graded. Along with an indication that the required item was trained, or a pass-fail or sat-unsat if it's a checked event.
Just looking at ONE day of recurrent ground will show a long list of all items, CRM, emergency drills, as well as systems training, etc..
When your future employer looks over your previous records, it's there.
03-25-2008, 01:55 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 955
Ok, I just looked at a copy of my last PRIA request response. It's a little more detailed than I remember, so I suppose a failed oral might show up. My records show just about everything I did in training, however they do not show the oral (although I did have one). Maybe because an oral is not an FAA requirement for an FO?
In any case, it's probably not a big deal as long as you finish training and make it to the line. Just be honest about it at any future interviews.
In any case, it's probably not a big deal as long as you finish training and make it to the line. Just be honest about it at any future interviews.
03-25-2008, 02:30 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: ERJ-175
Posts: 217
The newhire ride @Eagle does have an 8710, and you do get a new certificate - it has a SIC type on the back. I think the oral counts as part of that ride, but I'm not sure.
03-25-2008, 02:42 PM
#19
alchemist
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,089
Why is everyone afraid of failing? Take the next entire day to relax, recharge, and start again. If it shows on pria records or not, who cares! Making it through training is what counts, you can always explain to the next interviewer why he/she failed and that'll be it, but washing out is a different story!
03-25-2008, 02:53 PM
#20
Am I Wrong??????????
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: ThE jEtTtTtTtT
Posts: 662
I dunno....i cant believe it had everything to do with the instructor. Its an SIC ride...it should only consist of limitations, memory items and basic systems knowledge. If he didnt have this done pat, then i guess he deserved it.
I mean i know the kid....he was a good friend of mine....never gave himself enough credit...always had doubts. so who knows
I mean i know the kid....he was a good friend of mine....never gave himself enough credit...always had doubts. so who knows
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