Lynx Dirty Little Secret!!
03-18-2008, 06:31 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Lynx Dirty Little Secret!!
You should note that in a post on 3/9 under Lynx Aviation Interviews I described the interview and said “I am very pleased to enter class later this month”. That was before I found the Lynx “Dirty Little Secret”.
I interviewed, was offered the job and accepted all on March 7. Later that day I cancelled 2 interviews I was to travel to in the next 4 days for other carriers and told my contract flying folks I was leaving for Lynx. Over the weekend I ordered study materials ($100) for the Q 400 and a current pilot there sent me info to make up flash cards. 4 days later, the following TUESDAY I received an email of the offer.
The SECRET was a non-descript attachement.
Lynx spent 45 minutes on a company presentation by both HR and The Fleet Manager / Director of Standards. Neither mentioned anything about a training contract while going through a carefully scripted, very detailed presentation on the company, pay,travel, etc. In the interview with the Chief Pilot he asked questions, commented that they were making accommodations for commuters but I should still expect commuting to be a challenge. HR asked questions and asked if I understood the minimum hours per month, etc.
Neither the Chief Pilot nor the HR Rep said anything about a contract. I have been told that the first 45 or so pilots have been typed and without contracts. There has been no post or company produced information about a contract. A new post came from a pilot this week.
I called HR and politely and professionally asked about the training contract ($15,800, 1 year, no pro rate) and why it had not been presented. I was told it was their mistake not to have talked about it in the presentation or interview. I remarked that "I made a deal with you" and they said “We want happy people here with full hearts who want to build a team; we are rescinding our offer to you.” Can you imagine?
I have noted on this board when a question is asked about "ditching" a contract that most of the response is “Live up to you obligation …. You made a promise, your word is your bond”, etc. Don’t you think the same should be true of the employer? A deal was made, 4 days passed and then they changed the deal? I had already began changing my life!! I had avoided the less than flattering things that had been said about Lynx on the board but it seems they were right. Be warned, they will ask you to keep you word but they clearly wont keep theirs. And at the end of the day I expected more from their Chief Pilot & Senior Recruiter who had seemed so professional and spoke about company core values such as integrity & concern for the individual. I told other companies on that Friday that I took a job, passed on interviews I had for the following week and made them cancel travel plans. They have both declined to reschedule for 3 months. Contact work? Probably not since now they know I am out looking. To the couple of folks I met who fly the line, thanks for your information and help. I really had wanted to be at Lynx. They didn’t even ask if I was going to sign, which I was going to do as I felt there was a good fit and Denver is easy to get to.
I interviewed, was offered the job and accepted all on March 7. Later that day I cancelled 2 interviews I was to travel to in the next 4 days for other carriers and told my contract flying folks I was leaving for Lynx. Over the weekend I ordered study materials ($100) for the Q 400 and a current pilot there sent me info to make up flash cards. 4 days later, the following TUESDAY I received an email of the offer.
The SECRET was a non-descript attachement.
Lynx spent 45 minutes on a company presentation by both HR and The Fleet Manager / Director of Standards. Neither mentioned anything about a training contract while going through a carefully scripted, very detailed presentation on the company, pay,travel, etc. In the interview with the Chief Pilot he asked questions, commented that they were making accommodations for commuters but I should still expect commuting to be a challenge. HR asked questions and asked if I understood the minimum hours per month, etc.
Neither the Chief Pilot nor the HR Rep said anything about a contract. I have been told that the first 45 or so pilots have been typed and without contracts. There has been no post or company produced information about a contract. A new post came from a pilot this week.
I called HR and politely and professionally asked about the training contract ($15,800, 1 year, no pro rate) and why it had not been presented. I was told it was their mistake not to have talked about it in the presentation or interview. I remarked that "I made a deal with you" and they said “We want happy people here with full hearts who want to build a team; we are rescinding our offer to you.” Can you imagine?
I have noted on this board when a question is asked about "ditching" a contract that most of the response is “Live up to you obligation …. You made a promise, your word is your bond”, etc. Don’t you think the same should be true of the employer? A deal was made, 4 days passed and then they changed the deal? I had already began changing my life!! I had avoided the less than flattering things that had been said about Lynx on the board but it seems they were right. Be warned, they will ask you to keep you word but they clearly wont keep theirs. And at the end of the day I expected more from their Chief Pilot & Senior Recruiter who had seemed so professional and spoke about company core values such as integrity & concern for the individual. I told other companies on that Friday that I took a job, passed on interviews I had for the following week and made them cancel travel plans. They have both declined to reschedule for 3 months. Contact work? Probably not since now they know I am out looking. To the couple of folks I met who fly the line, thanks for your information and help. I really had wanted to be at Lynx. They didn’t even ask if I was going to sign, which I was going to do as I felt there was a good fit and Denver is easy to get to.
03-18-2008, 08:21 AM
#4
He who lies first, wins!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: back in the saddle with sores!
Posts: 546
Thats not the point, the point is it should have been brought up in the interview. The previous two places I work had them and they where upfront about them in the interview. I spend almost eight years at the first and over a year at the second, I completed both contracts. Honest and integrity two words HR and CP's blather about but few know little about.
03-18-2008, 08:41 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 224
Duke,
I'm really sorry it went down like that, they really should have told you during the interview. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
No disrespect intended, but the post just prior to your interview post does mention it. I guess I'm just confused as to how you missed that post and went four days without seeing it.
Checko
I'm really sorry it went down like that, they really should have told you during the interview. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
No disrespect intended, but the post just prior to your interview post does mention it. I guess I'm just confused as to how you missed that post and went four days without seeing it.
Checko
03-18-2008, 09:14 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 926
You know, I hear people complaining about these sorts of things all of the time.
This industry is full of setbacks, problems, delays, and disappointments. How one deals with them is just as important as his/her skills as a pilot.
Does anyone else think that these sorts of things just might be tests?
Sure, you can call references and talk to people about an applicant's background, but what are 95% of them going to say?
"Yeah, he's a good guy, hard worker, etc."
So if you were an HR person looking to find out a little about about an applicant's personality BEFORE they're under employment, a little test like this would have been perfect. I've read countless stories about interviewees talking about how turned off they were by what a "jerk" the interviewer was....well yeah, he wanted to see how well you handle conflict and weed out the people that have problems dealing with a conflicting personality.
The reality of the situation is that Lynx wants people to stick around and they have a training contract. You've implied that you had planned on staying there for more than a year and this contract wouldn't have affected at all, so you essentially made a big deal out of nothing AND demonstrated that there was a possibility that you wouldn't stay for a year.
....and they don't want people like that working for them.
Now, this might not have been an intentional move on their part, BUT, they still learned a lot about their applicant and they didn't like what they saw......thus your present situation.
I also don't mind pointing out that the simple fact that you came here to whine about it is further evidence that you're not very good at dealing with setbacks.
I do thank you, however, for sharing your experience...I hope to work for Lynx once I'm financially prepared to do so and you've given me some insight into what not to do.
This industry is full of setbacks, problems, delays, and disappointments. How one deals with them is just as important as his/her skills as a pilot.
Does anyone else think that these sorts of things just might be tests?
Sure, you can call references and talk to people about an applicant's background, but what are 95% of them going to say?
"Yeah, he's a good guy, hard worker, etc."
So if you were an HR person looking to find out a little about about an applicant's personality BEFORE they're under employment, a little test like this would have been perfect. I've read countless stories about interviewees talking about how turned off they were by what a "jerk" the interviewer was....well yeah, he wanted to see how well you handle conflict and weed out the people that have problems dealing with a conflicting personality.
The reality of the situation is that Lynx wants people to stick around and they have a training contract. You've implied that you had planned on staying there for more than a year and this contract wouldn't have affected at all, so you essentially made a big deal out of nothing AND demonstrated that there was a possibility that you wouldn't stay for a year.
....and they don't want people like that working for them.
Now, this might not have been an intentional move on their part, BUT, they still learned a lot about their applicant and they didn't like what they saw......thus your present situation.
I also don't mind pointing out that the simple fact that you came here to whine about it is further evidence that you're not very good at dealing with setbacks.
I do thank you, however, for sharing your experience...I hope to work for Lynx once I'm financially prepared to do so and you've given me some insight into what not to do.
03-18-2008, 09:36 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Keep on Truckin'
Posts: 76
You know, I hear people complaining about these sorts of things all of the time.
This industry is full of setbacks, problems, delays, and disappointments. How one deals with them is just as important as his/her skills as a pilot.
Does anyone else think that these sorts of things just might be tests?
Sure, you can call references and talk to people about an applicant's background, but what are 95% of them going to say?
"Yeah, he's a good guy, hard worker, etc."
So if you were an HR person looking to find out a little about about an applicant's personality BEFORE they're under employment, a little test like this would have been perfect. I've read countless stories about interviewees talking about how turned off they were by what a "jerk" the interviewer was....well yeah, he wanted to see how well you handle conflict and weed out the people that have problems dealing with a conflicting personality.
The reality of the situation is that Lynx wants people to stick around and they have a training contract. You've implied that you had planned on staying there for more than a year and this contract wouldn't have affected at all, so you essentially made a big deal out of nothing AND demonstrated that there was a possibility that you wouldn't stay for a year.
....and they don't want people like that working for them.
Now, this might not have been an intentional move on their part, BUT, they still learned a lot about their applicant and they didn't like what they saw......thus your present situation.
I also don't mind pointing out that the simple fact that you came here to whine about it is further evidence that you're not very good at dealing with setbacks.
I do thank you, however, for sharing your experience...I hope to work for Lynx once I'm financially prepared to do so and you've given me some insight into what not to do.
This industry is full of setbacks, problems, delays, and disappointments. How one deals with them is just as important as his/her skills as a pilot.
Does anyone else think that these sorts of things just might be tests?
Sure, you can call references and talk to people about an applicant's background, but what are 95% of them going to say?
"Yeah, he's a good guy, hard worker, etc."
So if you were an HR person looking to find out a little about about an applicant's personality BEFORE they're under employment, a little test like this would have been perfect. I've read countless stories about interviewees talking about how turned off they were by what a "jerk" the interviewer was....well yeah, he wanted to see how well you handle conflict and weed out the people that have problems dealing with a conflicting personality.
The reality of the situation is that Lynx wants people to stick around and they have a training contract. You've implied that you had planned on staying there for more than a year and this contract wouldn't have affected at all, so you essentially made a big deal out of nothing AND demonstrated that there was a possibility that you wouldn't stay for a year.
....and they don't want people like that working for them.
Now, this might not have been an intentional move on their part, BUT, they still learned a lot about their applicant and they didn't like what they saw......thus your present situation.
I also don't mind pointing out that the simple fact that you came here to whine about it is further evidence that you're not very good at dealing with setbacks.
I do thank you, however, for sharing your experience...I hope to work for Lynx once I'm financially prepared to do so and you've given me some insight into what not to do.
03-18-2008, 10:06 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: A319/320/321
Posts: 166
Duke,
I'm really sorry it went down like that, they really should have told you during the interview. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
No disrespect intended, but the post just prior to your interview post does mention it. I guess I'm just confused as to how you missed that post and went four days without seeing it.
Checko
I'm really sorry it went down like that, they really should have told you during the interview. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
No disrespect intended, but the post just prior to your interview post does mention it. I guess I'm just confused as to how you missed that post and went four days without seeing it.
Checko
Last edited by LR45DRIVER; 03-18-2008 at 10:07 AM. Reason: added text
03-18-2008, 10:09 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
I think there were two steps in your approach to this, 1) they should have told you and didn't. I think you were within your rights to call and ask, that's pretty reasonable. 2) you said " I made a deal with you" which I don't know how you said it, but to me it comes off angry. Honestly it also comes off entitled, they are offering you a job, nothing says they HAVE to give it to you. Also along that line, if you had no qualms about being there for a year then why even make a big deal out of it, I understand you were ****ed, but what did you think was going to happen? They would say "oh nevermind, since we didn't tell you we're not going to make you sign it" ... I don't see that happening. I'm of the opinion that they're providing you quite alot when they put you thru initial training, the least they can expect is you'll stay a year. As has previously been pointed out, if you don't mind being "that guy" you can always break the contract without consequence. My regional doesn't make us sign training contracts but if they did, I'd be ok with that, it only comes into play when you're using them as a stepping stone to another regional. Overall, lesson learned move on, send out resumes and chalk this one up to experience.
03-18-2008, 10:25 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 224
Blueskies, et al,
That's how I'm seeing it. There is nothing wrong with calling and telling them you had a couple of questions regarding the offer and asking them politely to explain why the training contract wasn't mentioned in the interview. If one is not satisfied with the answer, then just tell them thanks for the opportunity, but that you are no longer interested. No harm, no foul, and instead of the recruiter saying, "Gee, he was an a$$," they might actually chalk it up to loosing a great potential employee due to the contract, enough people so that and it might go away. Yeah its a bit idealistic, but it is simple labor economics, enough times and it will begin to matter.
A "professional" does not act like a bull in a china closet when things don't go their way, that's just immature. There is nothing wrong with a "professional pilot" comporting themselves as one and simply saying, "no thanks," when they are getting a deal they don't like.
Checko
That's how I'm seeing it. There is nothing wrong with calling and telling them you had a couple of questions regarding the offer and asking them politely to explain why the training contract wasn't mentioned in the interview. If one is not satisfied with the answer, then just tell them thanks for the opportunity, but that you are no longer interested. No harm, no foul, and instead of the recruiter saying, "Gee, he was an a$$," they might actually chalk it up to loosing a great potential employee due to the contract, enough people so that and it might go away. Yeah its a bit idealistic, but it is simple labor economics, enough times and it will begin to matter.
A "professional" does not act like a bull in a china closet when things don't go their way, that's just immature. There is nothing wrong with a "professional pilot" comporting themselves as one and simply saying, "no thanks," when they are getting a deal they don't like.
Checko
Last edited by TheGreatChecko; 03-18-2008 at 11:24 AM.
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