FAA Opens Investigation on Go! Airlines
02-19-2008, 05:09 AM
#1
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FAA Opens Investigation on Go! Airlines
Apparently the pilots of a go! (Mesa) CRJ-200 flight missed and island they were flying to in complete daylight. Air traffic control tried to contact them for 25 minutes. They suspect both pilots were asleep.
Seems pretty strange. I would have thought something like this to happen maybe at night... but not on a mid-morning flight. But I suppose maybe someone had a little too much fun the night before...
Anyone else hear anything? With enough publicity, no one in Hawaii will want to fly on go!
http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/
Seems pretty strange. I would have thought something like this to happen maybe at night... but not on a mid-morning flight. But I suppose maybe someone had a little too much fun the night before...
Anyone else hear anything? With enough publicity, no one in Hawaii will want to fly on go!
http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/
02-19-2008, 05:19 AM
#2
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Once again, the media is speculating. Could have been that both were asleep or it could be as simple as missing a handoff and the center controller didn't catch it. Or they were forgotten about and never even given a handoff and went out of that controllers airspace (it happened to a FedEx DC-10 that flew almost halfway across the country out of ATC contact because a controller forgot to issue a handoff). Could be any number of explanations.
I know missed radio calls are something we've all experienced and it would take a few minutes before the flags start to raise and you realize that something is not right. I can remember one quiet morning coming up from Mexico, involved in a pretty engrossing conversation with the captain. We evidently missed a handoff and it went so far as dispatch having to send us an ACARS message that we were on the wrong frequency. By the time we got the message we had already realized that we missed something and were trying to figure out what frequency we were supposed to be on. Point is it takes a few minutes to suspect something is wrong and then a few more minutes to figure out what frequency you are supposed to be on. Moving at 8 miles a minute, you're looking at going 24-40 miles in the 3-5 minutes it takes you work it out. And thats assuming you catch the error right away.
I understand everyone wants to poke fun at Go! and Mesa in general, but lets not crucify our own based on pure speculation from the next-to-useless media.
I know missed radio calls are something we've all experienced and it would take a few minutes before the flags start to raise and you realize that something is not right. I can remember one quiet morning coming up from Mexico, involved in a pretty engrossing conversation with the captain. We evidently missed a handoff and it went so far as dispatch having to send us an ACARS message that we were on the wrong frequency. By the time we got the message we had already realized that we missed something and were trying to figure out what frequency we were supposed to be on. Point is it takes a few minutes to suspect something is wrong and then a few more minutes to figure out what frequency you are supposed to be on. Moving at 8 miles a minute, you're looking at going 24-40 miles in the 3-5 minutes it takes you work it out. And thats assuming you catch the error right away.
I understand everyone wants to poke fun at Go! and Mesa in general, but lets not crucify our own based on pure speculation from the next-to-useless media.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 02-19-2008 at 05:24 AM.
02-19-2008, 05:51 AM
#3
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En-route to Hilo, they would have been handed off to that sector they were in (126.0) from Lanai. If they missed a radio call or frequency, they got as far as 130 miles away from Lanai on a wrong frequency... and went past their destination without descending.
02-19-2008, 06:28 AM
#4
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Oh, well, case closed then
I love how quick some people are to "armchair quarterback" something like this and crucify one of our own. My point was that any number of things could have taken place and an aircraft or a controller missing a radio call is NOT uncommon. They obviously figured out something was wrong and handled the situation in a relatively timely fashion. Would you have rather they saw the airport out the side of the aircraft, just hung it all out and come screaming down from FL210? Sometimes the best course of action is no action, at least immediately. Just take a minute, figure out what you screwed up and fix it. So while it may appear that they weren't doing anything (so of course they must have been sleeping, especially since it's Mesa) the crew may have, in fact, been working through the problem in a calm, collected fashion.
But I may be talking out of my ass since you are clearly privy to the CVR, ATC tapes and whatever other investigative materials are being evaluated.
I love how quick some people are to "armchair quarterback" something like this and crucify one of our own. My point was that any number of things could have taken place and an aircraft or a controller missing a radio call is NOT uncommon. They obviously figured out something was wrong and handled the situation in a relatively timely fashion. Would you have rather they saw the airport out the side of the aircraft, just hung it all out and come screaming down from FL210? Sometimes the best course of action is no action, at least immediately. Just take a minute, figure out what you screwed up and fix it. So while it may appear that they weren't doing anything (so of course they must have been sleeping, especially since it's Mesa
) the crew may have, in fact, been working through the problem in a calm, collected fashion.But I may be talking out of my ass since you are clearly privy to the CVR, ATC tapes and whatever other investigative materials are being evaluated.
02-19-2008, 10:44 AM
#5
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Based on previous experience, sleep deprivation and overall exhaustion is routine in mesa operations. If it was just a missed handoff, they probably would have asked SOMEBODY for a descent before crossing the destination in the flight levels...or just executed lost comms procedures. If they were snoozing, it wouldn't be the first time by a long shot.
02-19-2008, 11:09 AM
#6
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Seems pretty strange. I would have thought something like this to happen maybe at night... but not on a mid-morning flight. But I suppose maybe someone had a little too much fun the night before...
http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/
http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/4199/40/
Four day trip:
Day one show 1200, off at 2400
Day two show 1000, off at 2200 (on 10 hours rest)
Day 3 show time 0700, off at 1600 (on 9 hours rest)
Taday's show time 0400 (on 12 hours rest)
HOWEVER...
Day three is extended to 2100
today's show is pushed to 0500 (on 8 hours reduced rest which netted them 5-6 hours of sleep)
02-19-2008, 11:22 AM
#7
Day puke
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[QUOTE=freezingflyboy;323081]I can remember one quiet morning coming up from Mexico, involved in a pretty engrossing conversation with the captain. We evidently missed a handoff and it went so far as dispatch having to send us an ACARS message that we were on the wrong frequency. By the time we got the message we had already realized that we missed something and were trying to figure out what frequency we were supposed to be on. Point is it takes a few minutes to suspect something is wrong and then a few more minutes to figure out what frequency you are supposed to be on. Moving at 8 miles a minute, you're looking at going 24-40 miles in the 3-5 minutes it takes you work it out. And thats assuming you catch the error right away.
QUOTE]
You make a good point. A crew could lose situational awareness so badly that they forgot they were four miles high as they passed over the field without being asleep.
QUOTE]
You make a good point. A crew could lose situational awareness so badly that they forgot they were four miles high as they passed over the field without being asleep.
02-19-2008, 12:24 PM
#8
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Sometimes people on this board can amaze me. You're all crucifying two of your fellow aviators based on one report from a local news station? Wow. Well forgive me for wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt when the only source most of us have is one wildly inaccurate local media story. Christ, I hope I never put my tie on wrong or forget to tie my shoe and it gets picked up by the local media and reported that I'm drunk I can hear it now from the experts, "Well his shoe WAS untied. Pilots have procedures to follow if something like that happens. This individual was clearly drunk or distraught...either way, shouldn't be in an airplane and will have lots of explaining to do"
Well forgive me for wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt when the only source most of us have is one wildly inaccurate local media story. Christ, I hope I never put my tie on wrong or forget to tie my shoe and it gets picked up by the local media and reported that I'm drunk I can hear it now from the experts, "Well his shoe WAS untied. Pilots have procedures to follow if something like that happens. This individual was clearly drunk or distraught...either way, shouldn't be in an airplane and will have lots of explaining to do"
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 02-19-2008 at 12:30 PM.
02-19-2008, 12:33 PM
#9
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Freezing,
I agree with you in principle. People with access to the data will issue something after due process. Secondly, when it comes to aviation issues the media is like a clown parade. However, ...........
Are you employed by Mesa ? If so, is fatique a common occurence ?
If not, what would you do if you were at altitude AND AWAKE and about to overfly your destination airport ?
I know what I would do, but I'll sit on the sidelines for this.
FF
I agree with you in principle. People with access to the data will issue something after due process. Secondly, when it comes to aviation issues the media is like a clown parade. However, ...........
Are you employed by Mesa ? If so, is fatique a common occurence ?
If not, what would you do if you were at altitude AND AWAKE and about to overfly your destination airport ?
I know what I would do, but I'll sit on the sidelines for this.
FF
02-19-2008, 02:17 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 359
Sometimes people on this board can amaze me. You're all crucifying two of your fellow aviators based on one report from a local news station? Wow. Well forgive me for wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt when the only source most of us have is one wildly inaccurate local media story. Christ, I hope I never put my tie on wrong or forget to tie my shoe and it gets picked up by the local media and reported that I'm drunk I can hear it now from the experts, "Well his shoe WAS untied. Pilots have procedures to follow if something like that happens. This individual was clearly drunk or distraught...either way, shouldn't be in an airplane and will have lots of explaining to do"
Well forgive me for wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt when the only source most of us have is one wildly inaccurate local media story. Christ, I hope I never put my tie on wrong or forget to tie my shoe and it gets picked up by the local media and reported that I'm drunk I can hear it now from the experts, "Well his shoe WAS untied. Pilots have procedures to follow if something like that happens. This individual was clearly drunk or distraught...either way, shouldn't be in an airplane and will have lots of explaining to do"Use a little common sense... First off the FAA is investigating!!!!!
Second:
They were flying from island to island. They were in cruise flight and OVER FLEW their destination... You to think they missed a hand off?
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