FAA Opens Investigation on Go! Airlines
02-20-2008, 04:46 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,982
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This post has been modified from its original form. It has been edited for content and to run in the length of time allowed.
Two things:
1) Where are y'all getting this information from?! I read the article and my statements were based on the ONE media report about it. Unless y'all have new and more "official" sources I think you are reading a lot into it.
2) N2rotation: CHILL THE HECK OUT, over.
I am at ExpressJet too, friend. That doesn't give me OR you (or anyone else for that matter) the right to dump all over another pilot group, whether you agree with their management or not. Does their contract blow? Yes. Did ALPA negotiate that contract? Yes. Did you go there/work their with that terrible contract? More than likely. So before you strut around like your excrement doesn't stink I think you had better look in the mirror and remember where you come from. We're all in this together.
That said, I don't give a rip who works where for who, we as pilots should be the last one to join the torch and pitchfork mob anytime the media reports something "out of the ordinary" about an airline flight. We are our own worst enemy and you, my friend, do a great job of demonstrating that. Good on you.
EDIT: Thanks for posting all those link 8Lpearlchannel. However, those are all media (local media at that) stories and are, in my opinion, unreliable AT BEST. You can all enjoy your armchair quarterbacking and lynching but I'll sit on the sidelines and reserve judgment until something official is released.
Two things:
1) Where are y'all getting this information from?! I read the article and my statements were based on the ONE media report about it. Unless y'all have new and more "official" sources I think you are reading a lot into it.
2) N2rotation: CHILL THE HECK OUT, over.
I am at ExpressJet too, friend. That doesn't give me OR you (or anyone else for that matter) the right to dump all over another pilot group, whether you agree with their management or not. Does their contract blow? Yes. Did ALPA negotiate that contract? Yes. Did you go there/work their with that terrible contract? More than likely. So before you strut around like your excrement doesn't stink I think you had better look in the mirror and remember where you come from. We're all in this together.
That said, I don't give a rip who works where for who, we as pilots should be the last one to join the torch and pitchfork mob anytime the media reports something "out of the ordinary" about an airline flight. We are our own worst enemy and you, my friend, do a great job of demonstrating that. Good on you.
EDIT: Thanks for posting all those link 8Lpearlchannel. However, those are all media (local media at that) stories and are, in my opinion, unreliable AT BEST. You can all enjoy your armchair quarterbacking and lynching but I'll sit on the sidelines and reserve judgment until something official is released.
02-20-2008, 07:42 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Lawn Chair
Posts: 440
02-21-2008, 05:16 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 109
Apparently the news got to the national level...
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Busin...ory?id=4320215
The Honolulu Star Bulletin also reports the two pilots were suspended pending the investigation.
http://starbulletin.com/2008/02/21/b...s/story02.html
BTW, looking at the new updated radar track... if it is accurate, they did not overshoot the airport by 15 miles... thats 35 miles.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Busin...ory?id=4320215
The Honolulu Star Bulletin also reports the two pilots were suspended pending the investigation.
http://starbulletin.com/2008/02/21/b...s/story02.html
BTW, looking at the new updated radar track... if it is accurate, they did not overshoot the airport by 15 miles... thats 35 miles.
02-21-2008, 09:18 AM
#25
Recommend Retention
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,077
Does no one monitor guard anymore? If they weren't sleeping (yeah right) the excuse for missing a handoff is invalid and could've been prevented. I don't know how they do things now, but back when I was at the regionals we were required to monitor guard or the local Airinc frequency on #2. Thing of the past?
02-21-2008, 10:02 AM
#26
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
My point was that any number of things could have taken place and an aircraft or a controller missing a radio call is NOT uncommon. They obviously figured out something was wrong and handled the situation in a relatively timely fashion. Would you have rather they saw the airport out the side of the aircraft, just hung it all out and come screaming down from FL210? Sometimes the best course of action is no action, at least immediately. Just take a minute, figure out what you screwed up and fix it. So while it may appear that they weren't doing anything (so of course they must have been sleeping, especially since it's Mesa) the crew may have, in fact, been working through the problem in a calm, collected fashion.
) the crew may have, in fact, been working through the problem in a calm, collected fashion.--An aircraft missing controller calls for almost a half hour IS uncommon which is why the FAA is looking into it.
-- If it was radio communication failure then they should have followed AVEF and still landed with no issues. You don't go flying around for 25min without talking to anyone without squawking a code.
--If there was an emergency that they were dealing with for that length of time then the FAA should already know about it and not be investigating to see if they were sleeping or not. The FAA said they are investigating them sleeping. The reporters didn't just jump out there and make the accusation. So any belief that these guys were sleeping is well founded.
--Even if they forgot to switch frequencies or didn't hear ATC something should have popped into their mind when when looked out the window and saw the airport go by while still in cruise. Maybe they need acars to received messages when they aren't paying attention.
Looking at the pictures of their flight track I'd guess they had everything programmed in except for the approach and when it passed it's last fix, the airport, it went into HDG mode. Of course I haven't flown on the CRJ but it seems logical.
Last edited by ToiletDuck; 02-21-2008 at 10:15 AM.
02-21-2008, 10:27 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 34
02-21-2008, 10:45 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: XJT furloughed due to non-ALPA undercutting
Posts: 376
freezingflyboy- I am on the same page as you. I agree with most everything you said. The point of most of my posts is to try to educate and steer people away from working at companies with anti-pilot management and bad contracts. My message just may come across differerently than others on here.
If this forum was around back when I went to Mesa, it may have steered me away from wasting time there. Sure, jetcareers was around but not a lot of people warned me about Mesa. Lesson learned, I just wanted to now not let guys make the Mesa mistake I did.
In other news, my post on this thread was in regards to the fact that they could have been fatigued due to Mesa work rules and scheduling. I can see it happening, I remember how tired I used to get from flip flop standup overnights.
If I have swayed more than 1 guy away from Mesa (which I have) then I feel I have helped the industry.
And yes I will try to chill a bit more, but send the same message. Thanks. Fly safe.
If this forum was around back when I went to Mesa, it may have steered me away from wasting time there. Sure, jetcareers was around but not a lot of people warned me about Mesa. Lesson learned, I just wanted to now not let guys make the Mesa mistake I did.
In other news, my post on this thread was in regards to the fact that they could have been fatigued due to Mesa work rules and scheduling. I can see it happening, I remember how tired I used to get from flip flop standup overnights.
If I have swayed more than 1 guy away from Mesa (which I have) then I feel I have helped the industry.
And yes I will try to chill a bit more, but send the same message. Thanks. Fly safe.
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