softener

Alright guys, my friend and I had an experience in the sim the other day that caused a little debate. The scenaro took place on a 14,500 foot runway in a saab 340. We received the engine fire notification the second we hit v1. I am a F/O that was playing captain. i decided to abort and we came to a stop safely on the runway. Because it was a fire indication, i decided to stay on the ground. My flight partner said he would have continued the takeoff. We want to hear what you have to say on the matter....what if it was a 7000 foot runway???

olympic

There is nothing to debate. V1 is your takeoff decision speed. Looking at performance books or even charts V1 is made with a buffer knowing that the pilot will need to retard throttles, apply brakes etc. etc.

surreal1221

The aircraft are designed to fly on one engine. . .climb, secure, return to land.

But, that's what the book tells me to do if I have a failure at or after V1.

But, of course, if it occurs BEFORE V1, I'm staying on the ground.

JoeyMeatballs

Well, V1 is V1 for a reason.............. 14,500ft RWY is excessive, but any other rwy, in reality you are going, unless a wing falls of, then I would rather have a controlled crash then try to fly, but V1 is V1.


Although as much as I like the SAAB I remember some days out of LGA in the summer, if one of those G/E went, I was ready to go for a swim...........

JetJock16

I understand your argument but the real question is: what if you aborted the TO just after V1 on that 14K runway but ended up damaging the plane somehow? I know you think that nothing can go wrong but what if? If you had damaged the a/c then how would you explain your actions seeing that performance and research has proven that you can take-off and returned safely? This is a question that could end up costing your more than you’re willing to pay. We have rules that were written in blood and 99.9% of then should be followed to the "T," the other .09% is the grey area and this is not a grey area.

Like I said I understand your argument but it’s best to know when to follow the book and when not too. In this case I would have continued the TO because an abort is a compete guess regardless of the length of the runway where a TO has been proven.

rickair7777

V1 exists for one reason only: To mark the point at which you no longer have enough runway to guarantee stopping safely.

PRIOR to V1, you abort for serious problems, such as an engine or control failure (other abort criteria are aircraft specific).

AT or AFTER V1, you continue and fix the problem airborne.

If the runway is so long that you still have plenty left under all conditions, then V1 doesn't really exist, but for consistency it is considered to occur at the same time as Vr. You say "V1-rotate" in one breath, and after that you are also going flying.

You can always debate unlikely catastrophic control failures and whether it would better to stay on the ground and go off the end of the runway, but for training/sim purposes, if you hear "V1" you are going flying. Period.

You would have failed any airline checkride.

olympic

Just to get a little technical, there is a 1 second (recognition time interval) between Vef and V1

WAflya

After V1 we are going flying. End of story.

Airsupport

i agree with most of the posts on here. before v1 you stop it on the ground. after v1 you take it in the air. there are some very rare circumstances where you would stop on the runway if you could, even after v1. like the crj that had the gld deploy just after v1. i would have done the same thing they did and get it stopped on the ground. there would be no way in hell i would try and take a crj into they air with all the spoilers and gld deployed.. you would crash before you made it 50 ft up. this however is the exception. i know a few captains who will only abort for a few things once they get to 120kts, even if that is less than v1. the speeds are there for a reason, but keep in mind the situation. engine fires are no big deal, you go.

softener

i agree with what everyone is saying so far. however, an engine fire light could mean anything. i do not know how serious the fire is. if it is a fuel fire, my extinquishers may not work. if i go airborne, i may not get back down. Obviously, on a shorter runway, it is a different story. i would not have stayed on the ground for anything else....just the fire light.