Aborting T/O after v1...question?
02-13-2008, 12:08 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
Alright guys, my friend and I had an experience in the sim the other day that caused a little debate. The scenaro took place on a 14,500 foot runway in a saab 340. We received the engine fire notification the second we hit v1. I am a F/O that was playing captain. i decided to abort and we came to a stop safely on the runway. Because it was a fire indication, i decided to stay on the ground. My flight partner said he would have continued the takeoff. We want to hear what you have to say on the matter....what if it was a 7000 foot runway???
Fly Safe yall
02-13-2008, 12:09 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
i agree with what everyone is saying so far. however, an engine fire light could mean anything. i do not know how serious the fire is. if it is a fuel fire, my extinquishers may not work. if i go airborne, i may not get back down. Obviously, on a shorter runway, it is a different story. i would not have stayed on the ground for anything else....just the fire light.
02-13-2008, 12:12 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
At and after V1 you are going flying end of story, High Energy Abort are no fun and you may not have the ability to stop on the runway, at such a great energy state you might smoke the breaks cause a fire with hot breaks any number of things also even if the runway is 14,500 long like rick said for the sake of consistency you want to keep it Standard, that long runway when contaminated with snow ice or water may not seem all that long in certain instances, Personally I am going flying and landing at a much lower energy state...Bottom Line is YOU Go after V1.. if you disregard this you may have to do the Song and Dance to your company and the Feds..
Fly Safe yall
Fly Safe yall
02-13-2008, 12:13 PM
#14
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 19
the runway was clean and clear. my decision would have been different on a contaminated runway. these are all factors i took into consideration. however, if you want to throw more scenarios into the mix. what if my engine had exploded into a ball of flames?? i still have the same engine light. does the v1 we fly, end of story still apply. these are all extreme cases, but my point is the fire light could mean anything.
02-13-2008, 12:16 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL
Posts: 413
i agree with what everyone is saying so far. however, an engine fire light could mean anything. i do not know how serious the fire is. if it is a fuel fire, my extinquishers may not work. if i go airborne, i may not get back down. Obviously, on a shorter runway, it is a different story. i would not have stayed on the ground for anything else....just the fire light.
02-13-2008, 12:17 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
i agree with what everyone is saying so far. however, an engine fire light could mean anything. i do not know how serious the fire is. if it is a fuel fire, my extinquishers may not work. if i go airborne, i may not get back down. Obviously, on a shorter runway, it is a different story. i would not have stayed on the ground for anything else....just the fire light.
Last edited by JetJock16; 02-13-2008 at 12:23 PM.
02-13-2008, 12:21 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
yeah, but you wont be going flying at all if the gld and spoilers pop up on the wings,, you cant say that no matter what i am taking the plane in the air after v1. you would definantly kill everyone on board if you did. i will try and look up the incident and post it here. they talked about it in our recurrent class. spoilerons, spoilers, inbd and outbd glds popped up right after v1. lucky enough the guys had enough runway to stop. like i said earlier, they would have never made it 50 ft before it stalled and came back down.
Fly Safe Yall
02-13-2008, 12:24 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
the runway was clean and clear. my decision would have been different on a contaminated runway. these are all factors i took into consideration. however, if you want to throw more scenarios into the mix. what if my engine had exploded into a ball of flames?? i still have the same engine light. does the v1 we fly, end of story still apply. these are all extreme cases, but my point is the fire light could mean anything.
02-13-2008, 12:24 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,857
i agree with what everyone is saying so far. however, an engine fire light could mean anything. i do not know how serious the fire is. if it is a fuel fire, my extinquishers may not work. if i go airborne, i may not get back down. Obviously, on a shorter runway, it is a different story. i would not have stayed on the ground for anything else....just the fire light.
"If the engine's on fire, the extinguishers might not work once we're airborne." One thousand feet.
"I think this runway's long enough to abort, even though we're above V1." Fifteen hundred feet.
"Yeah, let's go ahead and abort." Now you're 2000 feet further down the runway and doing who-knows-what-speed more than V1.
Get my point?
02-13-2008, 12:25 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: the Curb (again)
Posts: 47
If it turns out to be a short in the sensor, then it is YOU who will be putting all of your passengers in extreme danger by aborting past V1 (and possibly fighting for your certificates as a result). As others have stated, all rules in aviation are written in blood. There is not a single red or yellow annunciator on my plane that I would abort for beyond V1.
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