Seggy

Saab, you are wrong here. ALPA would NOT under any circumstances let us picket. We wanted to during the organizing drive many times.

Why don't you go ask B.D. or E.S., who know me very well, what would happen if a Colgan guy showed up to picket then get back to me.

whtever

Without reading each and every one of the sad sad sad posts before this, I feel somethings need to be addressed. I am new to the site and sit here wondering about the pilots posting these threads. I was told the forums are informative with a lot of great info, and a wonderful tool to network, but from what I can see, a majority of the posts are from unhappy, immature pilots. These are the pilots giving the rest of us a bad name. It is admirable to try a make some changes in the industry and important to continue to fight for what's deserved, but it takes a mature group to fight the right battle. It takes some class to fight the correct fight. While I do understand the value of a debate (thank you for reminding me), and appreciate there are winners and losers in each situation and that the decisions made have effects most of us don't realize, who are these guys that spend their time on-line attacking other pilots, the companies they work for and their opinions of the industry. So many of the posts say we need to stick together to raise the bar, yet attacking an entire pilot group does nothing but the opposite. As a pilot I pick which airline works best for me and my situation, not which airline works for YOU. Each and everyone of us get to make that decision. I go to work and fly the airplane assigned, from the base assigned and continue to strive to achieve the next level, whatever it may be. I will not give up my career because an inexperienced twenty year old RJ driver feels he deserves better than myself. I will not sacrifice the livelyhood of my family to appease an ignorant pilot who feels I should, and who has no bearing on my situation or any other pilot's for that matter. The Colgan pilots did not protest to get the Q, but it became an opportunity for these guys. So now these pilots will go to work in a different airplane, not to stick it to the Pinnacle Pilots, or any other pilots for that matter, but because it is their job as a pilot. Pinnacle Management chose Colgan, and however it may affect you, it is important to know that the Colgan pilots didn't choose Pinnacle. The pilots had no choice, and in these situations, they rarely do- ALPA or not. You are faulting a Colgan pilot for the choices management made. Colgan or not, I hope now you see how rediculous this is. I expect some immature responses, but I also hope now that you all move forward and try and understand the big picture, not randomly assigning blame to your fellow pilots. Please place your blame accordingly and direct your anger at the source, not just the extremities left to deal with the effects of decisions made.

DMEarc

While the most of the XJT guys are class acts...many of them are upset that we're shifting their flying away from Newark. Many of their pilots have built lives there. Can't say I blame them. The Q payrate is just a reason to hate the pilots.

The guys at Colgan will get better pay for that airplane...it's just a matter of time.

Remember- Colgan is JUST starting out with contract flying as a publicly owned company. They're soooooooooooooo new to this enviornment. Why don't the anti-Colgan peolpe give them the time to do something...they were bought less than 1 year ago!

Seggy

The reason everyone is ****ed at us is we voted down a chance to make it better a few months ago. We really can't defend ourselves. Our actions will speak louder than our words.

When Delta shifted the LAX flying from ASA to XJT there was no bad blood. XJET actually costs MORE than ASA to do that flying. A lot different than Colgan getting this flying out of EWR.

FlyJSH

WOW! Stinging post from a new guy (or girl)....

Whtever, the Q issue does affect other pilot groups, and they should be able to comment on it. And current and future Colgan pilots also have some say: they can choose not to fly it (many have refused a Q offer)

But the rest of your post is SPOT ON! An honest debate is one thing, but name calling, pilot and company bashing is out of line.

Selcall

Here is a thought for everyone who is out there bashing both ALPA, Colgan, and everyone else that attempts to have an intelligent debate or discussion concerning various facets of the aviation industry. What will all of you do if the following happens?
- ALPA has an aribitration decision coming soon from an arbitrator concerning the entire Pinnacle Corp. buying Colgan with revenue from Pinnacle Inc. By the way the Alpa lawyers did a superb job of showing that Pinnacle Corp paper trail led directly to Pinnacle Inc and that Corp does in fact have idemnity to Pinnacle Inc. What if the arbitrator sides with ALPA and says that Pinnacle Corp is in fact Pinnacle Inc. and all the new aircraft bought by Pinnacle Corp for Colgan are now the exclusive property of Pinnacle Inc.? If that decision does come that way then the arbitrator could decide that all new aircraft (Q400) now belong to the Pinnacle Pilots.
- What will all the Colgan bashers, ALPA Bashers, and general flamebaiters have to say about that. Have you even thought of that as a possiblility or just getting all your accurate information from the crewroom?
-Just a thought from a lurker who enjoys reading all the "Expert Opinions" on this board.

WAVIT Inbound

This is not true. ASA did the flying under CPA. XJT does it under Pro-Rate.

mooney

Just for the record, 95% of Pinnacle pilots don't have a problem with the majority of the Colgan pilots. We have a problem with our management and the Colgan pilots/new hires that jump at the chance of flying a 70 seat aircraft because they have big airplane/small male anatomy syndrome. I also have a problem with some of our own Pinnacle employees, mainly the 400 hour fo that *****es that that he has to sit reserve for 3 months as a new hire, that it is going to take a whole 2 years to upgrade, if that isnt punishment enough he will have to sit reserve as CA for up to 6 months. And mind you, he WILL be a CA in 2 years, not a CA candidate who has to pass training.

CubCAPTAIN

so did the q400 do revenue flights today?

N2rotation

How can anyone say that its not the Colgan pilot's fault. By filling out an application and interviewing at the bottom feeder, aren't you fueling the problem, not solving it? By 50% of the pilots voting for a crappy future, that is not helping either.

Folks this industry isnt going to get better if we say, hey just go fly the 70+ seat aircraft for peanuts and we'll fix it later on. Fix it now! You are flying lots of people in and out of NYC! Do you get this, or do you just feel sorry for Pinnacle management. "Geeze, they have it so hard. Lets work for less so the company is ok."

GIVE IT TIME. GIVE IT TIME. GIVE IT TIME. We've been giving it time since 9/11. Stand up and grow a pair.